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4.0L Scope Captures

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Dm93, Mar 18, 2022.

  1. Mar 18, 2022 at 8:14 PM
    #1
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    I know not many of us have a scope but for those that do and/or are interested I grabbed Cam, Crank, Coil Control, Ignition Confirmation, and Injector control waveforms off my truck (2014 4.0L 65k mi).

    I have the original scope files if anyone's interested I can DM or post them, SnapOn files can be viewed in the SnapOn data viewer and Pico files can be viewed in PicoScope 6 or 7.

    11/29/22: Added vehicle speed signals.
    4/26/23: Added A/C Lock Sensor Signal
    4/8/24: Added ABS Sensor Signals

    Both were taken at a hot idle.

    Cam & Crank Signals

    2014 Toyota 4.0L Cam Crank Waveform.jpg

    Crank, Coil, & Injector Signals
    2014 Toyota 4.0L Crank Coil & Injector Waveform.jpg

    Vehicle Speed Signal Input & Output (aprox 0-5-0 mph)
    Speed Signal.jpg

    A/C Lock Sensor Signal
    2014 AC Lock Sensor Signal.jpg

    ABS Sensor Signal (Forward)
    ABS Sensor Forward.jpg

    ABS Sensor Signal (Reverse)
    ABS Sensor Reverse.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2024
    Mudman, SR-71A, BassAckwards and 11 others like this.
  2. Sep 19, 2022 at 8:47 PM
    #2
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    Had a perfect example today of why you shouldn't replace parts based on a code, had an 08 FJ Cruiser 4.0L (Same engine as the Tacoma) come in today with P0340 (Cam Position Sensor A (bank 1) Circuit) and P0335 (Crankshaft Position Sensor Circuit) codes. Knowing Toyota cam and crank sensors rarely fail I first looked for any obvious wiring damage and found none, next I hooked my scope up to the Cam and Crank sensor signal wires at the PCM and got the capture below.
    Notice the missing signals (The cam signals should each have 3 notches per rotation), no matter how many cam/crank sensors or PCMs you put in this thing you would not have fixed it.

    08 FJ Cruiser 4.0l Cam Crank Bad.jpg

    Next I pulled the bank 1 cam sensor, used my bore-scope to look at the reluctor wheel and found it to be broken.

    20220919161621.jpg

    20220919161654.jpg

    20220919161825.jpg
     
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  3. Sep 19, 2022 at 8:52 PM
    #3
    Bishop84

    Bishop84 Well-Known Member

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    Good catch.

    I rarely use the scope anymore, its a huge pain to set up (picoscope) I learned on a snapon 4 channel scope.

    I miss the old days of dedicated units that turn on and go right away.

    The best part of modern ones is that it can show you known good. But you had bank 2 sitting there haha.
     
    Dm93[OP] likes this.
  4. Sep 19, 2022 at 8:58 PM
    #4
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    I don't have a Pico, I'd kinda like to have one but boy they are proud of them.
    That's why I like my Verus scope, it's right there all I gotta do is hook up the leads.
    I also have a U-Scope from AESWave, It's perfect for those quick things that don't require a multichannel scope like ABS sensors or a simple control circuit.
     
    Jimmyh and Bivouac like this.
  5. Sep 19, 2022 at 9:40 PM
    #5
    Key-Rei

    Key-Rei Well-Known Member

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  6. Sep 19, 2022 at 10:08 PM
    #6
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    Yea I know it's not for everyone but it really is a powerful tool if you know how to use it, I did that diagnosis above in under 30min.
    Unfortunately even the majority of automotive shops don't have one much less know how to use one and instead rely on winging parts at problems until they fix it, the customer runs out of money, or they run out of parts to change.
    I have diagnosed so many things with a scope already and I'm no expert at using one by any means.
     
  7. Sep 19, 2022 at 10:14 PM
    #7
    svdude

    svdude Well-Known Member

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    davidstacoma and Dm93[OP] like this.
  8. Sep 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM
    #8
    Bivouac

    Bivouac Well-Known Member

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    Remains to be seen I bought the tires and wheels the rest came along
    Well stated !!

    Thanks for posting !!
     
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  9. Sep 19, 2022 at 10:33 PM
    #9
    Ricardo13x

    Ricardo13x YT: @UrbanOpsOffRoad IG: @urban.ops.offroad

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  10. Sep 20, 2022 at 4:35 AM
    #10
    JAGCanada

    JAGCanada Well-Known Member

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    I have a simple 2 channel oscilloscope ("scope") I use for electronics. Never thought about hooking it up to the truck... Is it as simple as hooking it up to the sensor?
     
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  11. Sep 20, 2022 at 4:38 AM
    #11
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    Any speculation on how the reluctor broke? I have seen it happen, but it has been far and few between.
     
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  12. Sep 20, 2022 at 5:34 AM
    #12
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    Providing it can handle the voltages yes it's the same concept, sensor signals are typically no more than battery voltage but if you get into injector and coil primary signals those can spike well over 100v.

    If you watch the youtube channels in my signature there's alot of scope usage.
     
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  13. Sep 20, 2022 at 5:40 AM
    #13
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    I'm guessing metal fatigue makes them crack and eventually fail but I couldn't say what the root cause is, it did have 200k miles on it but thats not really high mileage for a 4.0.
    I have seen a few people on here that have had them fail in a similar fashion.

    Maybe we should be checking them for cracks when we do valve cover gaskets.
     
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  14. Sep 20, 2022 at 5:49 AM
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    JAGCanada

    JAGCanada Well-Known Member

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    I watched the 1st video, "Pulling codes and changing parts is not a diagnosis!" That is an awesome video!...I'll check out the rest.
     
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  15. Sep 20, 2022 at 5:51 AM
    #15
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    It also makes me curious about the maintenance of the OCI. Need to compare to documented breakages that have been posted on here, or the 4Runner forums, to see what if any similarities there are.
     
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  16. Sep 20, 2022 at 5:58 AM
    #16
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    It didn't look like it was maintained all that well but I mean the reluctor is a peice of stamped steel.
    Maybe if the ports or valves for the phasers get plugged up and cause them to "hunt" it causes some kind of harmonic vibration that would fatigue and crack the plate.
    I don't think we are getting the job so there probably won't be any further investigation into this one.
     
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  17. Sep 20, 2022 at 8:11 AM
    #17
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    Well if they ran it low on oil, and the phasers were slamming, due to not being able to maintain, over a long enough period, that is a possibility I suppose. They rattle very loudly.
     
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  18. Sep 20, 2022 at 8:21 AM
    #18
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    For sure low oil would cause phaser knock as well as timing chain slap.
    Anyway we know they are prone to breaking and would definitely be something to check for anyone that gets cam/crank sensor codes.
     
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  19. Sep 20, 2022 at 11:12 AM
    #19
    nd4spdbh

    nd4spdbh Well-Known Member

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    Didnt they change the design of those reluctors at some point in the life of the 1gr single vvti?
     
  20. Sep 20, 2022 at 11:17 AM
    #20
    Dm93

    Dm93 [OP] Test Don't Guess

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    The only one I know was different was the 03-04 4Runner 4.0, as far as I know all other single VVT 4.0L engines have the same Cam/Crank reluctor profile.
     

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