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4th Gen. Tacomas (2024+) Spy Shots

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by 3JOH22A, Oct 5, 2021.

  1. Oct 15, 2021 at 1:45 PM
    #281
    Junkhead

    Junkhead TRDude

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    Hahaha!

    Man, those nivas are awesome off-road BUT huge piles of shit. They are super popular in former USSR countries. Russian cars in general are garbage, they still haven’t learned how to build them. 50k miles and everything falls apart.

    That’s was my dads first car, not that exact one though. Was air cooled, had engine in the back and had about 39 hp, haha!

    Oops, forgot to upload a the car.

    D48B4A55-1909-4619-B2B8-6F5D2715634D.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  2. Oct 15, 2021 at 1:53 PM
    #282
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    Don’t believe that anti-Soviet propaganda. Nivas kick ass and still do.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hkXcvofU8MQ

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLOkRqM-lk0
     
  3. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:18 PM
    #283
    Dawelda

    Dawelda Well-Known Member

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    okay, those videos were fun to watch, thanks stocklocker!
    They seem kinda cultish there...reminds me of the guys I've seen here with tricked out Suzuki Samurais.
     
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  4. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:22 PM
    #284
    Carmaker1

    Carmaker1 Well-Known Member

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    Another fellow 6MT PRO owner. I miss my little truck, in having not driven it for a few months now. (maybe need to relocate it?)

    Anyway, Motor1 unfortunately just doubled down on this, by copying TFL's wrong info. I am worried (not too literally), a lot of misinformation is gonna come out of this, in terms of expectations it's going on sale sooner than later.

    We are still some 27 months or more out from launch, because unlike everyone else (not referring to forum) looking at this in a semi-professional/professional capacity, I know for a fact when the 2023 MY Tacoma enters showrooms. October 2022, same generation truck. More speculatively, I don't think Toyota likes the idea of testing the actual vehicle, before 1 year out from launch.

    I don't know when it will be revealed, but subtract 1 year from that and maybe you get spy shots of it running around. They can also test it in fiberglass moldings of the new design when feasible, but typically that only happens in the highest security settings and usually it's very incomplete looking (ie no fascia, but the shape).

    I get what you're saying, but it's probably too late to reverse course at this point in time. Toyota designers were still designing it last year and when we saw the Tundra first get leaked last November, that would've been really great feedback time to complain (if not to your taste), since it wasn't locked down yet. Now it is firmly locked down and has been awhile.

    Some of you might be invited to consumer marketing research clinics over the next 24 months and actually see this truck early, but because of NDA or legal concerns, wisely won't comment on it. The consumer marketing research clinics are how our Ranger got leaked, back in February 2019 and raised hell internally, as it was too late to reverse course.

    Haha, I don't mean any harm and neither do they, but I think I am gonna gently explain this all to them (and anyone else), once and for all, so that everyone gets why this all happens and hopefully give insight into my own reasoning. I haven't always been well aware of how this all works and said similar when I was much younger.


    How so? I guess the Tacoma has been a decade long affair, if you exclude the last generation Toyota Pickup, launched in October 1988 as an 1989 model and discontinued sometime in the first half of 1995. It's pretty much the same thing in this case here anyway, just coming a little earlier as planned.


    Don't make the same mistake I did with early 3rd generation Tacoma speculation, back in the late 2000s. As an undergrad, I eventually interned for them down the road and remained dismissive towards any warnings, until it was too late to backtrack and save face (not really important, but in my case...:oops::facepalm:).




    Although I had no deeper knowledge of product planning at Toyota back

    then (over a decade ago), I still ignored someone's insider advice who I

    mingled with and found them to later be correct when I didn't see a new

    3G Tacoma for MY 2015 at all.




    Two insiders in fact commented on this, who I didn't listen to in the early

    2010s. I learned from that quite hard, as I looked really stupid for awhile for

    saying different. Not on TW, but elsewhere.




    As a teen in mid-2007, it had been almost 3 1/2 years since the 2005 X-

    Runner debuted in February 2004 at the Chicago International Auto Show

    as a prototype vehicle and before Toyota later revealed the whole 2nd

    generation 2005 model range in mid-2004 (spy shot shown).




    Then visiting TTORA in July-August 2007, my first online comment on

    anything Tacoma ever, I had falsely expected a refresh for

    2008. Someone who had seen the 08s, told me that it was same old and

    no changes, except for some special TRD OR Rugged Trail or something.




    I liked it, but couldn't get it, in not having supervisory control over my savings as

    a minor. Anyone who had been paying attention (unlike me), would

    have somewhat known this already and been aware, Toyota had Tacoma updates

    on deck for October 2008 (MY 2009) hiding in the wings (development).




    I was primarily interested in knowing, because I hated my new 2007 Hyundai Sonata

    Limited V6 5AT and still wanted a TRD Sport DCSB 6MT or an '07 FJ

    Cruiser TRD 6MT.

    unnamed (1).jpg 1951.jpg
    10887471.jpg



    However, I wasn't very in tune with stuff going on BTS

    and didn't get automotive development in general yet. I was utterly

    clueless in general, outside of seeing a future 2004 Jaguar behind closed

    doors back in June 2000 as a kid, at their Coventry HQ (I am UK born).




    Over 1 year later in September 2008, after the first 2G Tacoma refresh debuted

    for 2009 and I was now driving a 2008 Infiniti G35 Sport (insurance theft

    replacement...) instead, I was no longer in the market.




    Now taking interest in future stuff, I ignorantly declared

    that Toyota would redesign the Tacoma for 2014. Why, "cuz the original

    Tacoma ran 9 1/2 years from March 1995 to October 17, 2004 bro.
    " I had

    no insight back then, just my feeling. I relied on InsideLine at Edmunds

    and maybe a few blogs. Expected a new truck by late 2013.




    Well, that little 9 to 9.5 year theory of mine was uninformed and when I

    first saw the 2012 Tacoma as an intern in 2010, I was pissed and then

    assumed Toyota would run it for just 3 years from September 2011 to

    late 2014.

    13TA_base_default_34_f_d_490x280.png


    Being taken out to lunch one day, another Toyota employee whispered to


    me that he knew the 3G Tacoma to not be a large investment and that

    from the top, it was not going to be a major redesign and wasn't even in

    development yet. I didn't believe this guy and not caring much about it

    (too busy), just focused on the idea they wanted to run this 2012 refresh

    just about 2.5 to 3 years, to redesign it sometime in 2014.

    I actually let my personal feelings (from mancrush rejection) towards this person,

    get in the way of trusting his credibility (not saying that about you, totally

    different lol).




    Fast forward about 2 years, the 2012 Tacoma had already debuted in

    August 2011 and everyone was either pissed or happy to see the

    changes. News media ignorant declared before that, it was a new generation

    model, which was the only thing I knew (as a low level insider) to be different pre

    reveal in 2010-early 2011.




    Now 2 years after my first sight of the 2012 truck, I heard from 1 person

    who worked for an airbag supplier and he mentioned, 3G Tacoma redesign

    was for the 2016MY. This was 2012, so he was just about the only person

    speaking out on it. I ignored him unwisely and said it was coming for

    2015, based on 0 evidence. Again, just my feeling and going off of the 1G

    1995 to 2004 run.




    I already told myself in 2008 as a teen, that the October 2004 to mid/late 2013 run

    for 2G made sense. Not knowing about the 2012 model, until I saw it

    myself a few years later, before most of the world. The decision to not

    redesign the Tacoma for 2014, was made due to the financial crisis and

    later supported by Akio Toyoda in 2009. They instead ordered

    development of the 2012 model year facelift.




    I didn't know this about executive product planning back in 2010, but I did tell

    myself then that "if not 2014, then maybe 2015". Another 1-2 years later in early

    2014, the dude at the airbag supplier for 989A Tacoma Program, was proven to be

    dead accurate and extremely credible.




    Now working for JLR in England and briefly visiting, I saw the 2015-only

    TRD Pro teased (then revealed) for its debut at Chicago in February 2014. I quickly

    realized, the redesign was then 2016 MY as he said and not as I thought. Eventually

    as the months passed by and I saw mules and prototypes of the next gen Toyota

    trucks, I had to eat crow...

    images (3).jpg


    Two things I got wrong for 3rd generation were: The expectations I had from 2008

    to 2014, based on previous generation lifecycles and the wrong idea it would be a

    huge leap over the 2nd generation. I later realized it would be evolutionary, in

    comparing the 1994/95 Toyota Pickup to the 1995.5 Tacoma and

    the 2004 Tacoma to the 2005 Tacoma. First vehicle pair were evolutionary,

    second pair was a revolutionary changeover, that saw the Tacoma becoming upscale

    for 2005.


    toyota_truck_xtracab_4wd_2.jpg 1998001_1995_Tacoma_Xtracab_SR5.jpgtoyota_truck_regular_cab_2wd_6.jpg toyota_tacoma_xtracab_4wd_3.jpg toyota_tacoma_s-runner_v6_2.jpg toyota_tacoma_x-runner_access_cab_82.jpg
    2001_toyota_tacoma_extended-cab-pickup_s-runner-v6_i_oem_1_500.jpg tacoma-07 (1).jpg

    Pickup to 1st Gen Tacoma was familiar, while 1st Gen to 2nd Gen was day and night.




    I made the same mistake again with the Land Cruiser 300, even now as a

    working global professional in the 2010s. I expected a redesign in 2016-17 after a 9-

    10 year run, Toyota changed their minds and did a second facelift in 2015 and kept

    that another 5-6 years through 2021. Unlike previous generations that were shorter

    (1990-1997)(1998-2007), this one ran 14 years from November 2007 to mid-2021.

    You cannot rely on past examples to make your case.







    On a separate note:



    People in 1991-92 expected a new Toyota Pickup for MY 1994, based on the fact

    that the previous models ran a scant 5 years: From 1978 (79MY) to 1983 and

    1983 (84MY) to 1988, giving way in October 1988 to the 1989 Pickup.

    toyota_deluxe_truck_4wd.jpg
    bcdc3b6c6ffb44c909442f6ea8ebc9f4.jpg
    toyota_truck_xtracab_4wd_4.jpg toyota_truck_xtracab_2wd_92.jpg toyota_truck_regular_cab_4wd_4.jpg toyota_truck_regular_cab_4wd_55.jpg


    They also based this speculation on a then recent refresh (below) for 1992 in fall of 1991, with

    new Toyota emblem instead of the T O Y O T A letters.

    toyota_truck_xtracab_4wd_2.jpg

    Little did they know that this new Pickup, would not only be renamed, but wouldn't be

    available until March 1995 and not September 1993 like they expected. (I found this old

    speculation, via a very old school early, early informal message board from

    1992 (Netscape?) that had been archived via Google.)




    When the same Pickup appeared for 1994 in the fall of 1993, they were wrong. Corrective

    speculation then said, "oh it must be 1995". Well, entering 1994 and a few

    (Tacoma) spy shots surfaced in mags, they felt it was correct. However, some delays resulted

    in the same Pickup returning for 1995 as well and no new truck.

    toyota_truck_xtracab_4wd_2.jpg



    Toyota had wanted a 2 year gap anyway, because of having been developing a larger

    semi-half ton pickup in the T-100, since 1987, launched November 1992. Late 1994 was the

    target for the original Tacoma.

    toyota_t100_regular_cab_4wd_3.jpg

    In January 1995, Toyota secretly began building the new pickup called Tacoma at

    NUMMI factory in Fremont, CA. It made its debut in February 1995 at the Chicago Auto

    Show and entered showrooms around March 1, 1995.

    1998001_1995_Tacoma_Xtracab_SR5.jpgtoyota_tacoma_xtracab_4wd_3.jpg

    During 1995, updates to the new Tacoma were already on deck, first appearing on 2WD

    '97 models in October 1996 with new composite headlights and then on '98 4WDs in July

    1997, now also with dual airbags now as standard. A first in the compact truck segment

    (1997 Dodge Dakota was midsize), since it was optional on the competition or not available

    until later.

    1998001_1997_Tacoma_2WD_Xtracab_V6-1500x991.jpg 1998001_1998_Tacoma_4WD_Limited-1-1500x1014.jpgtrd_toyota_tacoma_xtracab_4wd_4.jpg


    American media began speculating on a 2nd generation Tacoma for MY 2002, which was in

    planning as of 1996-January 1997. However, that changed when Toyota HQ realized that they

    wanted to invest more on launching the 100-Series Land Cruiser and the incoming replacement

    for the T-100 (T-150), plus accompanying full-sized SUV (Sequoia), to both be built in Indiana

    (TMMI). They postponed the 2nd generation Tacoma into the mid-2000s, since the newly

    redesigned Hilux (August 1997) for 1998 MY would not be replaced until 2003/04.

    100 Series Prototype.jpg Tundra Mule.jpg Seq Prototype 1998.jpg

    toyota_hilux_double_cab_32.jpg

    They instead ordered another, more substantial facelift for October 2000 launch for MY

    2001. Designers completed the design work of the 2001 Tacoma in mid-1998, ahead of

    scheduled Fall 2000 launch. Just over 1 year later, development of the 2005

    Tacoma began in Aichi, Japan. In the meantime, the 2001 Tacoma made its debut

    at the 2000 Chicago International Auto Show in February 2000, as planning on

    the second generation vehicle was underway.

    the-toyota-tacoma 2-9-2000.jpg


    Various people, especially Pickup and Tacoma owners, were puzzled at Toyota in 2000-01 for

    redesigning the T100 to Tundra in quick succession, yet not even bothering to move on with

    an all-new Tacoma sooner than later. Media tried to backtrack from reporting bad rumors

    between 1998 and 2000, now speculating an all new 2G truck was due in 2003 as a 2004

    model. This wasn't correct at all, as Toyota 100% knew "nothing before August 2004" on that

    front.

    Tundra_2000_2.jpg


    You cannot reliably go off of such past patterns (like I did), because Toyota

    keeping the 1st generation Tacoma in production longer than its Hilux-twinned

    predecessor (which actually ran 9 years internationally), had nothing to do with

    the next generation vehicle.




    They wanted to invest more on the full-size front (1500 segment) and expand

    Lexus operations in late 90s/early 2000s, plus develop the semi-modular FWD K

    Platform, that debuted in 2000 on the 2001 Highlander (launched January 2001)

    and became the basis for nearly all midsized FWD unibody Toyota/Lexus cars from

    January 2001 to December 2022/2023 (current RX).

    toyota_sequoia_limited_75.jpg

    toyota_highlander_37.jpg lexus_rx_450hl_774_02f501ff0e17096d.jpg


    For the 3G Tacoma, they took even longer, because the compact-mid segment

    died by the late 2000s and spending money in a field where they dominate

    already, with no real competition outside of Nissan, wasn't deemed necessary.




    In the mind of CEO/heir Akio Toyoda in 2010, doing a heavy Tacoma facelift for

    2012 with 2G for a 4-year run and a uber-mega facelift of it for 2016 with 3G for a 6-8

    year run, would allow for later investment on a planned modular body on frame

    architecture, scheduled for the early 2020s called TNGA-F.


    trd_toyota_tacoma_access_cab_t_x_baja_series_limited_edition_6.jpg trd_toyota_tacoma_off-road_access_cab_1.jpg
    message-editor_1623264865362-20210610_01_11_s.jpg


    He ordered the 2014 Toyota Tundra and 2016 Tacoma on this basis as stop-gaps.

    Eventually, 4Runner development was halted and similar for FJ Cruiser. Sequoia

    was earmarked for death, as was quietly at Ford the Expedition (later renewed in

    2011-12 for '15 refresh and '18 redesign).

    toyota_tundra_limited_crewmax_trd_off-road_8.jpg


    In the meantime, they focused on first developing compact TNGA-C, for the 2015 Prius and

    future Corolla-sized vehicles. TNGA-L for RWD unibody applications and TNGA-N, a JDM-

    only version. Then TNGA-K, B, and lastly TNGA-F.


    tnga-main.jpg20160112_01_18_s.jpg005.jpg1547806199.jpg1920_tnga-009-396150.jpgmessage-editor_1623264865362-20210610_01_11_s.jpg

    While all of that was in development, only heavy facelifts (2014 Tundra) and recycled redesigns

    (2016 Tacoma) were implemented for all Toyota company products, until global TNGA

    products began launching from December 2015 (TNGA-C), May 2017 (TNGA-L), and July 2017

    (TNGA-K).

    toyota_prius_610.jpg lexus_lc_500_179.jpg toyota_camry_xse_31.jpg

    The idea behind all of this was, stuff like 2016 Tacoma didn't need a long lifecycle at 10-11

    years, when it was a heavy revamp of the prior product, originally launched on October 18,

    2004 as a 2005 truck.

    trd_toyota_tacoma_double_cab_sport_edition_26.jpg trd_toyota_tacoma_double_cab_sport_edition_38.jpg toyota_tacoma_trd_sport_double_cab_20.jpg


    2011 already brought a newer 150-Series Land Cruiser Prado (GX 460) based frame to the

    2nd gen Tacoma, replacing the original 120-Series frame basis launched in 2004

    (Prado/GX 470 in 2002). Just like the FJ Cruiser for 2010 and N280 4Runner for 2010

    switched from J120 frame basis to J150.

    toyota_land_cruiser_5-door_10.jpg toyota_land_cruiser_prado_invincible_5-door_1.jpg


    In case anyone hasn't noticed, the Tacoma is also basically a Toyota-badged non-V8 Lexus

    GX460 pickup with a C-Channel version of that J150 frame.

    lexus_gx_460_4.jpg



    So, your idea that Toyota isn't redesigning the Tacoma in 2024, is too similar to

    the bad predictions I made with the current generation truck back in the day.

    I have personally seen more than enough proof and heard confirmation, of what to expect via

    the 920B Program, still currently in development.


    My certainty has been 100% pre-2025 since 2014 and post-2022 since January of last year.


    You probably won't read this, but just saying...
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  5. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:26 PM
    #285
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. The Russians and others go hard in their Nivas. The funny thing is they have IFS suspension, but you never see one snap a CV. Somehow the Russians make IFS stronger than solid axles in North America. Proof it can be done.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HxTNaekUehs
     
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  6. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:27 PM
    #286
    Carmaker1

    Carmaker1 Well-Known Member

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    It's actually 2024, essentially 2024 1/2ish going by how USA tends to release new models, during a given model year. I am really concerned that there can be more delays over the next 2 years, as none of us have anything to do with it.

    4Runner actually debuts after the Tacoma, which wasn't planned from the onset. Was supposed to 1 year before Tacoma, but now it's about 3-4 weeks behind Tacoma. Only way I am wrong, is if Tahara builds them first in the fall of 2023. I cannot see Tahara's production scheduling, like Texas, Mexico, Alabama, Indiana, Canada, and Kentucky.

    Thanks Junkhead, but it wasn't always like this, especially when I was a teen/undergrad over a decade ago. I learned from embarrassing mistakes then, to get it right and also be ahead of everything.
     
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  7. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:28 PM
    #287
    Lawfarin

    Lawfarin Now it’s Titan Tuesdays

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    TL;DR
     
  8. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:30 PM
    #288
    Junkhead

    Junkhead TRDude

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  9. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:30 PM
    #289
    Junkhead

    Junkhead TRDude

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    Thanks for clarifying.
     
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  10. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:36 PM
    #290
    Dawelda

    Dawelda Well-Known Member

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  11. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:37 PM
    #291
    TheSortaHawaiian

    TheSortaHawaiian Well-Known Member

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    And to add the DCLB to the Pro trim
     
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  12. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:37 PM
    #292
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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  13. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:42 PM
    #293
    GrievousAngel

    GrievousAngel Well-Known Member

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    You know, antiquated. Like, instead of a proven V6 that will last forever, let's put in a 4cyl and put two turbos on it. Also, who does gears? Let's slap a CVT in there. Don't worry, we'll ham it up so it'll feel like it's shifting. Oh, and how did you ever get from point A to B without a 32 inch OLED across the dash? WHO NEEDS KNOBS???

    That speedometer that still works from your 1995 tacoma? Rubbish. We're going to make it software. No worries. We're throwing it at LEAST 5 years of support and upgrades for it.

    Oh and lane sensing and auto brake and engine-stop-at-redlights and maybe we'll sandwich an electric motor in between the ICE and the tranny! What could go wrong? Isn't this what you've all been clamoring for?
     
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  14. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:47 PM
    #294
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    I for one, appreciate that all the critical functions on the 3G Tacoma are still tactile knobs, buttons, and switches, with only infotainment and other non-critical functions on the screen.

    It is much cheaper for makers, in 2021, to just give you a screen than engineer and manufacture actual buttons. That’s why crap cars all have the full digital dash.
     
  15. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:50 PM
    #295
    GrievousAngel

    GrievousAngel Well-Known Member

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    The answer will be hands free options. "Hey Tacoma. Turn volume up." "I'm sorry, I didn't understand you..."
     
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  16. Oct 15, 2021 at 2:53 PM
    #296
    GrievousAngel

    GrievousAngel Well-Known Member

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    Not just your opinion. Anyone with eyes can see all the generations of 4Runners still floating around. Wish the wife liked one, would like to lock in this classic before they ruin it. It's a little ugly, but the bones are terrific and proven.
     
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  17. Oct 15, 2021 at 3:03 PM
    #297
    Anchovy

    Anchovy Rule #1: Never take me seriously

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    I skimmed the post. And I do exclude the Toyota pickup since the name was not continued. But I am going to stick to my guns since the only thing we can do is speculate at the moment
     
  18. Oct 15, 2021 at 3:05 PM
    #298
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    Vehicle:
    17TRDORDCSBAT
    It’s a tough call. I agree with what’s being said, but I gotta say, driving around in my 10 speed / Twin turbo / F150 at work, with drivability, power, comfort, and efficiency that is so vastly superior than that of any truck Toyota has ever produced, I ponder if maybe it’s worth driving a disposable vehicle that is that much better to drive in the short term. Who wants a dog that lasts forever?
     
    Lt. Dangle and Junkhead like this.
  19. Oct 15, 2021 at 3:16 PM
    #299
    Junkhead

    Junkhead TRDude

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Member:
    #284671
    Messages:
    10,300
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Serge
    Canada, BC
    Vehicle:
    Black 4x4 Sport MT 2018
    Some Serious Tires
    True.

    If it came with a manual and I didn’t need a truck bed, I would be rocking the brand new 4r for sure. Indestructible machine.
     
  20. Oct 15, 2021 at 3:17 PM
    #300
    Junkhead

    Junkhead TRDude

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Member:
    #284671
    Messages:
    10,300
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Serge
    Canada, BC
    Vehicle:
    Black 4x4 Sport MT 2018
    Some Serious Tires
    Would you feel comfortable going to remote places with no reception in the Eco boost f150? I wouldn’t.
     
    Burns and Dawelda like this.

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