60+ year old thread.

I’ve heard mountain lions screaming at night in the wilderness, it’s a little unsettling. Even more unsettling is to be stalked by one. A few years ago while hiking with my dog to some remote lakes trout fishing I was stalked by a mountain lion. As soon as I realized it I put my dog on a leash and made it back to my truck. A mountain lion can kill even a large dog in seconds. My dog wasn’t afraid but I was. I always carry either a 44 mag or 357 mag while in the wilderness but wasn’t anxious to have to use it. That night rather than sleep under the stars I thought it prudent for me and doggo to sleep in the back of the truck in the camper shell. I never venture unarmed into the boonies.

 

Here you go add up the loads you will be using at once. Not all the loads you will have plugged in. You can only run so many thing at once. So don't figure this at 100 amps the wire size will be real BIG! add the compressor, lights and some hand tools read the amp load off the equipment. Figure Motor Loads at 125% for starting on the compressor. The plug it into this formula for your answer. Voltage drop is a big deal. I feed my big barn 450 ft from my service with 4/0-4/0-2/0 alum for the 100 amp service panel. It would be hard to even pull 100 amps that far with out a drop in the volts below the recommended amount. I wanted it to be able to run my 50 amp welder and no problem. Heating can take voltage drop it is motors that burn up in a shorter time because of it. Voltage Drop Calculator

I just did it and they want 2/0 aluminum for a 100 amp load. So that is why you want to know the real max load. I was a commercial electrician for over 40 years plus a electrical contractor 13 yrs and held my Administrator License but been out of the trade long enough codes have changed some, but not wire size and volt drop. I can sill screw up in % numbers off the top of my head!

Another thing to think of is the voltage drop already at the point your getting power from. Like my 400 amp service they fed it with 4/0-4/0-2/0 which is OK. But I have a 200 ft run to do it and in the winter a solid 100 amp load on the cable and it is causing low voltage at my service at times down to 105/210 on my voltage. By the time the power goes another run to my pump house #8 Copper for a 10 amp 230 volt load which is fine. but then it goes 350 ft down my well pipe to the pump. Add up 200ft, 200ft, 350ft that is 750 feet to the pump and in the winter the 210 volt at my service is dropping my well pump down to far and hard on the pump!! I need it at the service to be at least 230 volts year round not just in the summer months. There going to upgrade the service drop to 250MCM which can be pulled in my 3" PVC conduit I ran to the pole. instead of 2 1/2" like they wanted. My electric bill with out electric heat can be $850.00 a month with 2 water heaters, 6,000+ sq ft of living space, 8 buildings, 4 trough heaters, 13 freezers, well pump and tons of outside lighting everywhere! The freezers are killing us full of dead things and 3 for our food/meat. It all adds up. So measure the power at your service when your running at full power and see what it is. Use it for your starting voltage. 120/240 is normal for load figures then take 3% off that is what they allow. Gets lower at your plugs under load. What ever it is below 120/240 take that off of the voltage in that Voltage Drop last voltage figured for the true drop. Just the more times you add to the length it changes in dropping the voltage more. SO the 5% drop is the total drop including the service 3% drop too in that % drop.
Way more then you ever wanted to know about Electricity but for me it was a trade and you had to know this stuff to do/get it right and not burn down places from your work. I slept better at night knowing that!

The National Electrical Code says that a voltage drop of 5% at the furthest receptacle in a branch wiring circuit is passable for normal efficiency. For a 120-volt 15 ampere circuit, this means that there should be no greater than a 6 volt drop at the furthest outlet when the circuit is fully loaded.

 

I’m curious as to why anyone would choose aluminum over copper except for the initial cost. You get what you pay for and copper is king.

 

We are being over run with Cougars coming to close to home and killing dogs, cats, livestock ect. Reason for this they stopped hunting with dogs and they don't fear them now near as much. Seems the big cities on the coast side of the Cascades this they should do as they please since they were here first? We have the same problem with Wolves and now Grisly Bears! They are dropping them off near us and say it is OK and needed??? They don't drop them off in the city and I wonder why? I have have wolves visit us only 300 ft from our home! We have large 180 lb Newfoundland's that are fenced in to keep stuff away at night. They bark a lot at night and not during the say. We can tell when it is big they start to grow too! Two were brought in that day. We have a hunter/trapper working for DNR that brings in the ones reported for problems. May have killed livestock or pets and then tracked down. He uses dogs for this.

 

Aluminum is OK for #6 and larger terminated right with proper connectors and inhibitor. The scare of using it came from when they used it in #14, #12 and #10 awg wire in homes. Connections corroded got loose and heat developed causing fires. Code was changed to fix the problem. You can't afford to use 4/0 copper when aluminum can do the job also for way less cost. Mostly used for the service and real large loads like a range, furnace ect. Never use it if you find the old stuff like 14/12-romex that was outlawed including the old Copper Clad stuff.

This explains it better. Copper vs. Aluminum Conductors | Anixter

I hate to say it I worked with Knob and Tube(pretty good wiring lasted over 100 years!), Corrected Knob and Tube, Installed Aluminum Romex(warned them it was bad), Used Quick Wire plugs and then wired them under the screws and also fixed or tore out the Aluminum Romex later. Even installed Zinsco and FPE Stab/Lock Service Panels(again warned them it was junk!)and replaced them later with better panels. Saw a lot of changes over the years in the trade and loved it!

 

Talk of Grizzlies always brings to mind the fate of the "Grizzly Bear Expert". Some folks have inflated egos inversely proportional in size to their pea brains.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-grizzly-attack-yellowstone-idUSTRE8241WW20120305

 

A shot in the eye is a real bitch for any animal. But I would go more for the noise effect scaring them off with a small caliber then shooting a bear and wounding it to make it want to kill you instead of running away. Other wise I would put all the rounds in it's face when close!!

 

We use a lot of what they call Hay Salt it is finer to do part of the tanning process on a hide. Then we bag it up and use it on our gravel driveway at the right tempiture times the thick ice is forming. Using the salt has kept my driveway free of weeds so it has 2 good uses!

 

The so called grizzly expert was nothing but a dumb shit and an idiot. Attacks by black bears are rare and often not lethal. Grizzlies are an entirely different matter. Very unpredictable and often very aggressive. When a grizzly attacks death is likely. I started carrying a 44 mag back when I use to backpack the Montana Bear Tooth Wilderness. Lots of grizzly there. What people don’t realize is that bears including grizzlies are lightening fast. When they charge you from say 50’ or less you have 3 or less seconds to draw, aim (or point) and fire. And remember the adrenaline is pumping and you are shitting your pants. You may get off one or 2 shots but chances are unlikely you’ll hit a vital spot or hit the bear at all. Even though I’m always armed while in the wilderness with a powerful handgun I think bear spray is more effective and improves your chances of survival. A couple times I carried a short barreled 12 gauge loaded with alternating 00 buck shot and slugs. I think that is the best and most lethal in grizzly country. I no longer backpack due to my back problems but still do some hiking in the wilderness to fish mountain lakes. Am always armed both because of 4 legged and 2 legged predators.

 

12 Gauge 000 Buck and Slug Magnum Loads staggered is my home protection to go outside with where I live. Well stop anything that is a threat here including a pissed off 2,000 lb Bull! Pistols for inside the home.

 

Price the difference then you tell me why. AL when installed correctly is just as stout as Cu.

 

Never had a service or subfeed I installed with AL have a failure. This includes a 3 phase service feeding a multiplex movie theaters with AL parallel runs of 750 mcm

 

^^^...THIS!

 

Only time I had to run all copper including 4 runs of 750 MCM Copper Per Phase was wiring the service for the Nuclear Keyport Torpedo Facilities in Keyport WA a long time ago. It was the Semiconductor Plant where the made them and tested the insides. Required NO Voltage Drop and a 800,000 AIC 800 AMP Breaker for the panel. Did there Grounding grid too over 50 - 10 ft copper ground rods all Cad Weld Connections. The grounding was hooked to bars people hooked onto at benches to work on stuff. Those Torpedo's are really BIG TOO! Was in the 80's so been a while but the neatest job I ever did! Hooked into the Net Work system in Tacoma Wash to feed the Clock Tower Building down town. Used to be a Old Jail in the Basement with stairs going nowhere and carvings on the wall of the cells with names and dates! The Clock at the top behind the Dial is so cool to see. I sure had fun as a electrician working over the years. Wired the water controls for the Rocky Shores Zoo water tanks Flight Tanks, and Walrus Tanks where ET and Rosie were kept. They were little when I did now dead but they have a statue of them there! tacoma wa clock tower - Google Search

This is about ET and where he lived. I used to play with him in the morning cause I got there so early. The Sea Otter were so good at getting to things I had to hide the radar unit that detected the level of the water every 10 seconds for a average to control the level with valves. They busted the Viewing window with a big rock to! They had to replace it and no loose rocks in there again! This also was a cool job to have under my belt! I miss doing this kind of work so much!! E.T. Walrus Sculpture Unveiled at Point Defiance Zoo & Aquarium - SouthSoundTalk

 

@Travlr - I'll leave the GOOD advice to the Electrician that have responded. My experience is long, but not as large, and just part of the task at hand. You want Aluminum. You want as much space to pull it though as you can get - it's hard. And whatever code says is the minimum of how deep you need to go.

Alright, this morning I said I got inspired by @Devious6 greenhouse, which is far bigger, and nothing like what I have. BUT, the pictures planted a seed.... Here's his (still love it) during the being fixed phase;





Now, see, I only have a 6'x8' to work with. Room for nothing more. But I chose a nice looking Palram brand, instead of my previous third-world looking stuff built off a metal frame - which had a replaceable plastic cover for freeze protection. I bought them in the first place to STORE pool plants for winter. Doing summer greenhouse stuff was just something that came along. I replaced this - with something that would look better, and was well recommended by "greenhouse people".





This is the "jewel box" Palram. After the first summer (which was only half), I was really fighting heat from solar gain. Even with two roof vents, a wall vent, open door, and a constantly running fan. It "survived" a first winter, which didn't have much hard freeze, and was by and large sunny. Second summer, I went through two different shade cloths on top. I added fans, anything. Barely helped. Winter 20-21 - we had the February Stormageddon, froze for a week, and wrapped in plastic all around - I lost almost 80% of our plants. Summer 21 just increased my frustrations. But, these Palrams are "built off the previous step" - you can't really undo anything without doing everything; it will fold and collapse. (I proved this).





After watching Marks repair all summer, it came to me. I was going to "remove the roof", and build an open window space all around. Now, it did collapse on me a couple times, but I got my angle steel in all the corners, framed it around the top, started adding bolts and plunked the roof back on the new "lifted" frame. It's got more bolts and nuts than it ever did. If you look through Marks unfinished window openings, and then my screened in - you'll see the inspiration.





This allowed me to make much easier and better winter insulation mods!





Now, the two are nothing alike, but it was those windows that did it! Who knows what we'll try? Which is just another reason I love to see what y'all do! Now, if you will excuse me, I got to go kill a grizzly.... I mean sear a steak!

 

Awesome work!! Normally, I'm only good to serve as a bad example!! I like it and I think having that higher roof will help your heat problem. And, of course, here's Lynn's favorite part.

 

Good morning fellow Porchatonians!!

Got another 40% of the driveway cleared of ice yesterday - lots of breaking it with the shovel and then shoveling off the pieces. Today is supposed to hit 45+ so I may just be able to get the rest cleared today.

This getting older crap is for the birds. I've been going through a series of ultrasounds after my kidney stone party last Fall both on my kidneys and liver to track/evaluate cysts. Finally had an MRI with contrast on Monday - got the results back yesterday with no concerns noted. Back in a yar for another MRI. Woo Hoo!!

Stay safe out there!!

 

Morning 60tys. Off work today for an doc office visit. Future dreaded check of the hershey highway.

 

Per my aging mom's wisdom - "Getting old ain't for sissies"..... Dunno where she got that but seems to fit well.

 

I was not an electrician by trade, but I have a question. At the sub panel, when you set up the buss bars for the neutral and ground feeds are they not bonded together by the sub panel box? Neutral and ground on the surface seem to be the same but in reality, are different with respect to current flow.

I used to have a hot tub, long since gone, but I still have the wiring I had installed. I use the 6/0 feeds for the ground and neutral and set up separate buss bars in an outdoor weatherproof resin enclosure. I also had six 12/0 wires pulled for additional circuits needed for the hot tub and garden outlets. The distance from the main panel is about 50 feet. I now use the wiring for three 15-amp electrical circuits to support the back yard. I do have quite a bit of capacity sitting spare in the weatherproof enclosure. If we install a pavilion this year, I will install a sub panel using the two spare 6/0 wires that are currently sitting spare in the box for the two phases.

Today starts a new semester for guitar lessons. I also need to call the Harris Teeter pharmacy to check on my eye gel prescription. It was supposed to be filled yesterday and was not filled. The website said it should have been ready yesterday.