A340F advice - 2014 4x4 'shudder' NOISE (this is different!)

@gearcruncher
Sorry for not getting back sooner.. took some much needed vaca, and then work piled up here. Anyway....
Tried a stall test - nothing.. max RPM around 2k, no vib or noise. Nothing unusual at all.
Even with the DTC (from disconnecting the connector to the mission), the vib persist. I thought maybe in failsafe, it might be different... but all it did is cancel cruise control.
The fluid when changed didn't have any sediment or chunks, nothing worrisome.
I did my best to get the Techstream software working on the PC, but no luck. I was able to clear the DTCs with my EBay OBD reader though.

Your last comment was exactly what I thought.. not normal stuff. Unfortunately, with no vehicle history/gauges or snapshot data, I've little to work with to properly diag the condition. I don't have any faith the dealer will be able to diag either, and will simply call a transmission replacement.

My gut says this is an electrical issue (the t/converter works properly in 1 and 2nd, and anytime the RPM is better than 1500. It doesn't slip at any point that I can feel it). Now... is it a bad ground, high resistance, bad sol, etc... in my experience, throwing 'some' parts at it can be more efficient than pin testing the entire vehicle. Since the condition only occurs at very specific times, I highly doubt any electrical test will be conclusive.
A line pressure test could give us something to use in the diag though.

So back to where I originally ended my diag - dropping the valve body!
Should I be concerned that springs and balls are going to drop out and I'll not be able to put this back together?
I have to do this on the floor, with the mission in the truck.

And I'm super curious about the after market relay valves - Can I simply buy them, a new filter and oil, and reassemble this?

1000 thank you's in advance!
Ivan

 

Yes , I see where you want to go in an begin replacing valve body components , however , your problem should be visible on a scanner or lab scope at this point .
If you brought your truck to my shop , I would certainly be road testing with the scanner connected before I started dropping the valve body .
Your transmission is completely computer controlled including the locking torque converter .
Proper diagnostics require a scan before we can jump into valve body repairs .
You are free to do as you please , but if we jump to the valve body without scanning for codes or watching live data and checking pressures , we are skipping a couple steps in the diagnostic tree and may accidently come to a conclusion that will end up costing you more money .
Read this https://www.transmissiondigest.com/toyota-flex-lock-up-converter-a-rose-by-any-other-name/
Thats not a chance I am willing to take . I dont like going into a job blind .I prefer using the full diagnostic tree . The idea behind Tacoma World is working together as members to save your wallet from losing weight hehehe .
Here is what I am willing to do .
How far are you away from setting up the techstream ? or scanning for codes with your ebay scanner ?
I am also from Ontario but understand Ontario is massive . It takes 24 hours to drive through Ontario at highway speeds in case others are wondering .I know almost every trans technician in Ontario . Where abouts are you located ? I will scan and lab scope plus road test your truck for free . I can set you up at your local trans shop for a free scan and scope plus road test and you can leave there knowing more than we know rite now and it will not cost you a penny .

Then , I can walk you through valve body repairs if feasible . Its easy as long as you have patience and a clean place to work but I think it would help if we followed the diagnostic instructions step by step by scanning and scoping followed by checking pressures . Considering this has been going on for 2 years is not great . You wanna catch these issues very shortly after they pop up . If you leave a chattering clutch pack alone without addressing the issue , it generally cooks the clutch in a short time frame even if your fluid looks visibly good .
If you catch it in time , a valve body kit or solenoid replacement will fix the issue .
There is always a chance a rubber o-ring managed to get cut on a clutch piston and a pressure test will tell us that .
If you continue to drive the truck with serious chattering , your chances of a cheap valve body repair becomes nearly impossible .
With only 90k or 50,000 miles on your truck , your issue is very unusual in comparison to what we see at Tacoma World on a daily basis .
Lets carefully work this one out and try our best not to break the bank

 

@gearcruncher
You are unbelievable! I hope we get to meet at some point. Thank you so much for taking the time to help
First - I forgot to mention - tapping the brake during the condition made no difference... and I mean that literally. I am positive it's in 4th, fully locked up... and no change in noise OR RPM!
Second - I'm just outside North Bay (1.5h east of Sudbury). I am not afraid of a road trip! If taking it to your shop is the best way to figure this out, I am certainly game (it's only a half day away lol).
If it can be done locally, that would be super easy on my end. I just simply don't have much faith in the dealer, but that's not a fair assessment... I've only dealt with their parts dept.

I have the V16.7 (I think? latest one), and it's asking for the key that I don't have and it wasn't supposed to need.
I know my way around a tablet (Honda tech) and can take a snapshot, if I can access the PCM.

Tell me how to get you what you need, and let's figure it out!
I have no problem spending $ to get a good diag, so if you have the people, I'll make the time.
Ideally, we can do most of the diag closer to home and then a road trip if we're left with no choice.
Thanks again!

 

BTW, there are no DTC, no MIL.
The only DTCs were set when I disconnected the mission connector.
They cleared instantly with my OBD adapter.
The data I can pull with it seems to be mostly engine, but I'll have another look to be sure.

 

Give me a day or two to round up my bro,s in North Bay . I know them well .
I am in Red Lake or basically on the other side of the planet if you were to drive up here .
As far as data , your going to want to watch when your ecm commands 4th gear , when the ecm commands flex lock up as well as full lock up .
Sensors that may effect shift feel .
Throttle position sensor .
Cam position sensor
Crank position sensor .
Manifold absolute pressure sensor
Brake switch .
Trans temp sensor .
These sensors need attention while the truck does the vibration .

 

@gearcruncher
Taking the beast out today for errands. I'll test the OBD reader I have to see what I can get for data.
Not expecting much

Read the Flex Lock article... this piece caught my attention "At higher speeds (above 40 mph), lock up could be cancelled with the brake pedal. If you touched the pedal, the TCC unlocked because it was in full lock up, but below 40 mph, pressing the brake pedal had no effect." . Not sure if this also applies to the A340F? I will try to get it to shudder over 40 and tap the brakes.

 

@gearcruncher
Well... over 40mph, the t/conv does shut off! and the noise/vib is gone. Not sure that eliminated anything for sure, because it's there below 40 all the time?
Any luck getting someone to understand the diag needed? No concerns with paying gearcruncher.. just make sure they know what info to get you. And if all else fails, I'm up for a road trip

 

Sounds good . Take it for a good drive and report back . truck has to be good and warm before you get 4th gear as well as converter lock up
Sorry I have been swamped at work plus 25 questions a day at Tacoma World hehehe . Its fun to be popular

 

OK , back now

Alright , as I understand things now , the brake tap test does stop the vibration above 40K when you gently tap the brake pedal ?
A brake tap test turns the converter off . If the vibration comes back shortly after you release your foot from the brake pedal , I am fairly certain you have a nasty converter shudder

 

I'll test it again.. it was finicky on the road test, but over 40, it stopped the vib each time. Would that make it as simple as a bad t/converter?? Should we still plan to do more diag?

That 'flex torque' doc made this sound like the same issue the guy with the 5sp was getting, and ended up in the valve body.

 

Yes . That is a bad lock up clutch inside the torque converter . If this has been going on for 2 years , chances of Lubeguard deglazing the lock up clutch are very slim .
The coins shaking in your video helped a lot .
The downfall . In my opinion at this point in the diagnostics and if your truck was in my shop , I would be replacing the converter as the next step.
You get a bad converter clutch every once in a blue moon .
Are you prepared to pop the transmission out and replace the converter ?
A new aftermarket converter for your truck sells for $300 bucks and you give them your core .This is going to fix your shuddering

 

Well, if you are that certain
Yes, I feel quite confident in the ability to replace the converter myself... though, I may get a quote to have it done locally (we have an ex Toyota tech here). I don't have a hoist, no fun to do on the floor.
Do you recommend any particular brand, or have a link to a part you'd use?
Thanks again gearcruncher!

 

Weird... looking for parts, it says my 2014 reg cab doesn't have the A340??

NVM... depends on what site you visit! lol

 

I get all my transmission parts from King-o-matic . They recently started selling to the public . They sell all the parts you will need
http://www.kingomatic.com/products/torque-converters

I think if you went to the dealer , you pay about $1200 for the converter plus your core . The labor to remove and replace the trans at the dealer is waaay too much $$$$$
You can do far better in the aftermarket and get a much better upgraded converter with better friction materials from King-o-matic
There are converter shops closer to you though that you may want to try to avoid nasty shipping costs . I would not suggest having your converter rebuilt . I wouldnt trust that one at all .
Your truck was in an accident ? is there a chance damage was done to the undercarriage ? Its very seldom we see A340 series transmission with converter shudders as bad as yours . Do you have any service records ?
Did someone change the transmission fluid and use the incorrect fluid ?

 

So, I had a tundra in the shop doing the same thing. (Albeit a little less violent). Customer had me out lubeguard shudder stop in and I’ll be damned it actually stopped the shudder, but it likely is just a bandaid fix.

 

Lubeguard is a fantastic product that will absolutely fix a converter shudder forever if you catch the converter shudder in time . Frequent transmission services after the lubeguard is used will also help that converter shudder from coming back .
If you allow the clutch inside the converter to shudder for a long period of time , your chances of Lubeguard working are very reduced .
Replacing all the transmission fluid at the same time you add lubeguard also gives the clutch inside the converter a better chance at survival .When new transmission fluid is introduced , you replace the spent friction modifiers in the fluid

 

I suspect the accident damage was minor... New hood and left front fender, the rest looks to be original (other than paint). The underside is like new, there are no weld marks, so frame wasn't pulled. The 'story' I got was a minor front end damage, above the frame and everything seems to check out.
Other than that, no idea. The 2 previous owners barely drove it, maybe 10km a day!!!
But it did come from the US before that, when the most of the mileage was put on. And no idea where it has been

I'll get a quote from the local guy to replace the t/converter. Looking at other posts, seems doing this on the floor might be taking on a little too much. No mission jack, just a floor jack. I know when I'm getting it over my head!
Thanks again.. t/converter will get ordered ASAP.

 

transmission jacks arent super expensive if you wanted to DIY it. its not a very hard job to drop the trans on a taco.

 

Its a big time saver with a trans jack .
Dont have to separate the transmission and transfer case . That will save a couple hours . Some guys drop the exhaust .
Hopefully your Toyota tech buddy can help

 

@gearcruncher
So I bit on a Princess Auto motorcycle jack, and plan to pull the mission myself.
I measured it and I'm pretty sure the jack fits under the pan with the wheels on the floor. This will be the most stable and simplest way to proceed.
This jack has a large flat surface to set the mission on, with large casters making it easy to move backwards.
My parts guy is going to quote on the replacement torque converter, and I reached out to kingomatic (no response yet) for a price as well.

IF neither gets back to me... would you consider supplying the t/conv and filter? I'm sold on your advice, and this is the vendor I want to use. Their website clearly states no customer sales though

Any tricks or hacks I should know before I get into this?
It's my first Toyota mission to pull, but not my first transmission.. although it's been a long time since I've done one.
Unbolt the d/shafts, drain the mission, pop out the level/fill tube, disconnect the wiring, unbolt the t/conv to flex plate, remove bell housing bolts/mission mount, remove rear crossmember and pull back straight and gentle... did I miss anything?