ABS issues on icy roads and tire size

I don't have trd off road, I'm TRD sport. Nothing special here, no A-Trac, nothing. Therefore I'm pretty sure that my experience is relevant.

 

Excellent point. Unfortunately it's probably becoming a little of both.

For that very reason, my hope is that a concise definition of the problem might possibly begin to steer the discussion toward a more profitable outcome. I had hoped to avoid the problems we had with that 'other thread'.

Because, if we can't agree on a definition for the ABS problem, theoretical or otherwise, then this discussion will continue to go round various circles.

 

I have a TRD Offroad and I've experienced it the same way people are saying..... ON ICE UNDER SNOW.

 

Yep I agree with all of that. ABS will not help in that situation, largely because you are not a teenager screaming because she is out of control and just standing on the brake. You would likely be able to do better at staying in control and guiding the Truck without the abs. I don't think that is specific to Tacoma abs, it's just the nature of the conditions. There is almost nothing you can do. If the wheels are turning you can steer a bit and maybe pick what you hit, but that's about it.

I'm a similarly experienced driver, Canadian winters etc, and I would also rather not have abs in this case.

 

I also must admit. I drive a Honda Civic 70% of the time and I can stop sooner at faster speeds. With a two ton truck I noticed this is not the case while applying the same braking pressure. So that also fucks with me from time to time.

 

What way is that? The abs kicking in when you think it shouldn't? Or taking braking away from all wheels when you think only one has lost traction?
(genuine question. I'm happy to discuss this, and I don't mean to attack anyone. I apologize for the FoS comment earlier, uncalled for, I was getting a little excited.)

 

To add to that, 3 days ago I went from civic to tacoma, 35mph in both moderate pressure on brakes while stopping for a stop sign, I usually start at the tree line between two yards. Totally fine in the Honda.

Then in my tacoma, same speed, same point applying the brakes, but I go from moderate pressure realizing it's not enough and I'm still going too fast and then have to apply more.

 

Totally agree. That would be excellent.

Some guy did just such a test in sand. Can't remember the thread. It clearly proved significantly increased stopping distance with ABS on sand under his particular set of circumstances.

But snow and ice is tougher to test than sand. Sand is nice and uniform. Easy to find.

On the other hand, for snow and ice on a hill, we would have to wait for exactly the right conditions. Put our day on hold to go drive to the location to grab it at exactly the right time. Get out there in lousy weather with video etc. And somehow prove that the snow and ice patches on the road were exactly the same in each test -- or do a million tests which still probably wouldn't satisfy some.

 

Did abs take over in both cases? If so, my guess is that your civic simply has more traction. My girlfriends kia Rio is better for stopping traction on snow and ice... Better tires and a lighter vehicle.

 

I have access to such a hill, should be icy snow at the moment. I don't think anyone else from Calgary is in this thread though. I'll see if I can find time to go check it out.

 

The fact that it kicks in and does nothing. Because I'm on ice.... Nothing works on ice I keep trying to say this. It's a known fact.

However in hard packed snow my stopping distance near doubles and it does kick in and feels like it shouldn't even be on. Release the brake pedal, push on it lightly only to feel it come on again. And this happened right out of the factory.

 

Negative no ABS in either case, this is a dry pavement scenario. Shitty tires on the Honda Civic with like 1/4" of tread left maybe less.

Just noting that I drive the civic more and it screws with my head when I start driving the truck because it's almost twice the weight so I need to remember that when I get into it. I need to apply brakes earlier in the truck.

One thing I've also noticed is the brake lights on the tacoma don't come on until I've pushed the brake pedal about 3/8". Which I find weird since the brakes engage VERY VERY lightly before that.

 

Yep on ice all you got is your fingers crossed really.

Is that hard packed snow on pavement or off road? I think on pavement it may help more, less chance for a berm to build up in front of the tires and stop you so the abs helps not hinders . Off road, totally true. Abs makes it way worse. Just the nature of ABS, not specific to our trucks.

 

Ah okay that makes total sense. Much heavier vehicle. Also possible brakes are more worn on taco therefore more pedal movement needed.

 

Hard packed snow on road down a very slight grade, went right into an intersection 15mph after about 2" of snow and a billion people driving on it. Idk, after I get fluid film and spray my frame down I'll deal with driving the truck and posting results of findings. We get a lot of salt and chemicals on the road and no car wash has an under washer that actually works even when you pay an extra $10 and I've argued this and I just don't pay for it anymore because they're a bunch of liars.

 

Good. Good. That's exactly what I was hoping to see.

Because part of the problem with these debates is even reaching a concensus that any ABS problem even exists at all. So we end up going in circles and getting all pissed off.

If enough people report that they have experienced a very specific problem with ABS, then that gives credibility to the theory that a very specific ABS problem does actually exist.

Then we might be able to talk about what to do about it, or something else more fun.

 

Lol, this argument again.

My advice is that if you think your ABS is bullshit then just install the killswitch mod for it already. For those of us that aren't having a problem with our ABS there is no need, except offroad, to disable the system.

Otherwise this is just another ABS or no ABS pissing match.

I'm sure a Tacoma ABS problem exists. It is a problem with the Tacoma activating the ABS when it will not help and in a way that causes a holy shit moment. It is not a problem with ABS in general.

 

That would be f-ing AWESOME! Canada, of course, for the win! You guys always have snow and ice!

I can't frikkin wait! If you are able to do it, I'd hope you start a whole new thread to publish your work so it doesn't get buried deep here in this thread.

 

I think a big part of why people seem to think they have issues is that they don't realize:

1. Abs is meant to maintain your ability to steer. Stopping better on some surfaces is a by-product.

2. Just because it felt like three tires had pavement and one had ice that this was actually the case. Nearly impossible to know for sure unless you get out and go walk where you just drove to test the surface.

3. That if your abs kicks in every time you brake on a slippery road, chances are you are simply driving inappropriately for the conditions. This human error is far more likely than a malfunctioning abs system.

Edit:
4. This is hugely dependent on tires. A dedicated winter tire designed for hard packed snow and ice, not necessarily studded, will have way more traction under the same conditions, than my duratracs (which I think do pretty well for the wide range of surfaces I make them deal with). Again, driving for the conditions. My parents AWD mazda cx-5 has fantastic winter tires, we drive through the mountains for skiing at least weekly. On hard packed snow that I have a blast going sideways in with my truck in 4x4 I struggle to even break their tires loose or make the abs kick in all.

 

I agree with these statements.

BTW I am from just south of Calgary. I do not have the problems described in any of these threads. I acknowledge though that they do exist because so many people are having the same specific issues. I guess I just have a lucky Tacoma