ABS on this truck is dangerous...

And don't forget aftermarket fuel pumps, LED lights, lift kits, oil filters, ETC.

 

True, at 5mph then it's the failure of the Tacoma ABS that sucks. The discussion has gone far away from the original problem though and I, from the beginning, was trying to use the logic of objects at rest versus those in motion and the coefficient of friction of a moving surface versus one in constant contact to explain the advantages of ABS before I realized this is TW and logic may as well be pixy dust out my bum hole .

I'd encourage you and everyone else that lives in a cold climate to try driving a skid car at a good defensive driving school. It's an eye opening experience.

I've had my two cents. I'm out.

 

Then

and it's a fact that ABS increases stopping distances on snow

Nobody is talking about hammering on the binders at 65 mph in rain on a freeway here except you

 

I never argued against the piling effect on non ABS vehicles, it's in my original post . I think we've beat this dead horse enough considering we actually agree more than disagree. People are chucking out sand, snow, and every condition at every speed. My example was just one more case where ABS will help you out rather than hurt you, which is why I think putting an ABS disable switch is not a bad idea for people like you that live out on a logging road somewhere that have legitimate needs to disable ABS.

 

When I purchased my first Tacoma (1989), I asked if it had ABS. The salesperson said, "No, you can't put ABS on an off road vehicle." My second Tacoma was a 2005, which came with ABS (Both Trucks were Motor Trend's Truck of the Year). It was impossible to go off road with the ABS system. You'd be crawling over rocks and one wheel would be up in the air. Applying the brakes didn't work as the ABS took control and the brake pedal went down to the floorboard. I racked up $500 in damages because of the faulty ABS. I later found out that locking the rear differential would turn off the ABS.

On another occasion, I found that the vehicle would not stop in the snow. I almost slid through an intersection at the time. I later did some testing on snow in a safe area and got the same results. I brought the vehicle into the dealership, but they reported that the ABS system was working properly! I also installed the ABS Defeat Switch (4-wheel drive mode), which 'fixed' the ABS problem by disabling it. This mod worked well when traveling in snow.

A year ago, I made a panic stop to avoid a collision. The Tacoma is supposed to be able to stop in 221 feet at the speed that I was going. The vehicle in front of me was 300 feet. The vehicle slowed down rapidly and I thought that I would be able to stop in time. When the speed got down to 25 MPH, the ABS system kicked in. It felt like I was being pushed from behind as I accelerated into the vehicle in front of me, totaling both vehicles.

Do you remember the Toyota acceleration recall campaign? It said that the rugs on the Tacoma caused vehicles to accelerate when the brake was pressed. It wasn't a problem with the rugs, it was the ABS system! Toyota made extensive changes to the ABS system in later models (2011 and newer).

I replaced my 2005 Tacoma with a 2014 model. Initial testing shows that the ABS system seems to be working much better, but I have experienced rear wheel lockups (a single wheel) on several occasions (not a panic stop). Toyota has looked at the problem, but they could not find anything wrong.

On a final note, After numerous deaths, Toyota have recalled millions of vehicles because of unintended acceleration problems on 2005-2010 Tacomas. See http://www.forthepeople.com/blog/toyota-and-lexus-unintended-acceleration-problems. The outcome: The rugs were not at fault. Toyota has had to pay $1.2 Billion dollars for hiding deadly 'unintended acceleration problems'. See http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you” --Joseph Heller. The Toyota ABS problems are REAL, not figments of people's imagination!

 

Yes, an oldie but goodie.

Toyota ABS has reportedly been increasing stopping distances on snow and ice at low speeds -- for five years, too.

This thread is no more arduous than waiting for Toyota to fix the problem, or for me to wait for an interesting explanation of why it's not actually a problem.

Compelling reading.

 

I know it has been said on here many times, but tires make a huge difference for ABS. My stock tires and ABS were a joke in the winter; my studded snow tires changed everything.

I lived at the end of an isolated 10 mile road at 3200 feet in the WA Cascades that was always covered in ice in the winter. Needless to say I have driven in some interesting winter conditions [/IMG]

 

Thank you for that, brother. This whole thing fascinates me.

 

Thanks for writing that, I was thinking the same thing. If someone could prove the ABS module caused unintended acceleration, even though the two have no direct connections that I know of, they definitely wouldn't have to work another day in there life.

Off topic, but I do love how every once in a while someone comes up with a totally new reason for the unintended acceleration issues. It's the problem that won't go away and gets blamed for every accident.

I think some people assume that because some of us understand there are advantages to ABS that we think ABS always shortens stopping distance... which is in no way the basis of any of the logical arguments that have been made.

 

I'm so glad the ABS in my 2010 regular cab work perfectly. It does exactly what it is designed to do, it prevents the wheels from locking up during hard braking. It doesn't increase the stopping distance, it doesn't shorten the stopping distance.
ABS has saved my ass from stupid drivers a couple of times. LOL! Stomp & steer baby and live another day.

 

Here is a pic of a set of winter studded tires I have used for 2 years now .
No issues braking , no issues with traction or cornering . I just took these pictures driving over a frozen lake .
Studs make the tire work well .Notice how the tread is directional and not as luggy as the older winter tires , Technology has come a long way . Here is the review I have no issues going through deep snow with some extra weight in the box of the truck .


Driving on a frozen lake

 

My bad . The reviews I did are 2 years old now .
At the time , the Utra Ice grips were at or near the top .
I went with those because they were the only tires available in my area .
Just wanted to stress how important it is to use a tire that works with your climate . In my case , 9 months of snow and ice make a winter tire a necessity .
I will post pics when I have to chain up

 

I hit manhole covers on completely dry roads and the ABS won't let me stop

 

My '06 Tacoma 4x4 is a 6 speed manual, and I have no problems with the ABS. We had a couple of nasty winters here, and I get forced into doing all the driving in it. It doesn't snow until temps are close to freezing, and when the roads are covered, the temps make a very slick road. Better if it's colder, like in the '20's (F) or -10(C).

One thing that's very important on snow and ice is to push in the clutch or put the automatic in neutral when you're trying to stop. I have seen automatic cars stopped at a traffic signal with their rear wheels churning away...ya think it may have been hard to stop and stay in control???

The other thing, is that (after two 4-Runners and one Tacoma, plus a GMC 4x4 between), all were wonderful on ice/snow in 4wd, but were absolutely terrible in 2wd. My buddy's '08 Chevy 4x4 has automatic on/off 4wd as a traction control system. I think I'd like that a lot! I was under the impression that most 4x4's ABS systems are disabled when you're in 4wd. Maybe reading the Owner's Manual would be in order? I know it's been a long time since I read mine.

Tires will also make a huge difference. Mine came with BFG Rugged Trail T/A's, and they're great in snow.

 

Not sure if serious.

Those tires suck in snow. When I had those, is when I had most trouble with the touchy ABS.

 

I don't know if I buy that.

By modulating the braking power it should theoretically lower the overall stopping distance right? If your skidding you are not using 100% of the possible grip available if the tire is spinning. The ABS takes in something insane like 1000 reading per second or something to do this.

So while the braking power is lower the overall stopping distance should be lower no?

This isn't true for poorly working ABS systems though

 

ABS may decrease stopping distances on high traction surfaces

ABS DOES increase stopping distances on low traction surfaces

http://youtu.be/2o0V6VPX_E0

 

Ok, there's always one

 

Technically yes, ABS does increase stopping distance, but not for the reason you stated here.

The optimal stopping distance is achieved when you keep the tire at it's peak friction level of slip. This is called threshold braking. This point is NOT at 100% slip (wheels locked) on concrete/asphault surfaces. It is some smaller amount of slip %. So the only way you're going to stop in a shorter distance without ABS on dry or wet pavement is to perfectly threshold brake, and none of us are Ayrton Senna so that's not going to happen.



The only exceptions to this rule are polished ice and loose dirt/snow surfaces. On polished ice a locked tire has basically the same coefficient of friction as one that's about to lock. On loose surfaces a locked tire will be the best case because of the build-up of material in front of the tire, helping slow forward movement. In this case ABS sucks.

ABS works by modulating brake pressure to keep the tire in that optimal slip zone, pulsing many times per second to do so. for this reason it's pretty awesome on dry/wet pavement, but it can be detrimental on snow depending on the ABS tuning. Toyota is notoriously very aggressive with its ABS/VSA settings which isn't so great in the winter time.