ABS on this truck is dangerous...

wut??? I believe on our trucks all of our ABS have a separate iine to each wheel.

 

They have separate line to each wheel but line between ABS and Master cylinder is shared by two wheels.
There are 4 lines to each wheel and there are two lines to master cylinder (front, rear)
TRD Offroad has third "line" (build internally ) between ABS and MASTER cylinder (or fluid storage) Thats the line system uses to not affect front, rear line while its working. This is what allows ATRAC to function better than TRAC.
So Offroad guys should not be affected by the problem at all unless they messed with suspension enough to affect how EBD is calculated. Still they will nto get as bad problem as the rest of the trucks.

 

Yes I have a TRD. Wasn't aware of this. All I really know about it is I have ABS, I havent delved into the actual mechanics of it and was merely stating my expereinces with it and that I have never had a problem. I guess to some people I shouldn't be stating this.

 

Just to clarify, a tire that is not sliding but applying braking has a higher coefficeint of friciton than one that is sliding. An ABS system should reduce stopping distances on any surface that does not pile, regardless of the physical properties of the surface the friction of two surfaces in constant contact (static friction) is greater than two sliding against each other (kinetic friction). It's physics. Surfaces that pile include Snow and Sand. Ice and dry pavement do not pile, and thus a properly functioning ABS system will stop you faster on these surfaces than hammering the brakes without ABS will.

However, if the ABS isn't functioning properly then it is possible sliding will stop faster than ABS. That's the issue here. My Tacoma's ABS works fine. That doesn't mean there aren't places where it would fail or other Tacoma's that had there ABS modules programmed on a Friday that are just plain failures overall.

 

Exactly and finally a proper response. I just couldnt put it into the scientific terms that you did. +1 to you.

BTW, before OZ chimes in on this, irregardless isn't a word, it's just regardless.

 

query

 

You are correct.

 

Awesome , that only took you guys 1000 posts to finally agree with the rest of us that ABS increases stopping distances on low traction surfaces like snow

You could have done that on page 1

 

1200, but who's counting.

And for the record, I was always refering to packed snow on roads. I never said anything about driving through fresh fluff.

 

I agreed with you on snow a few hundred posts ago. Your mind is slipping old man.

Most of the stuff I drive on gets packed into a nice layer of skating rink ice, which doesn't pile. No piling mean no bueno for stopping faster without ABS, unless your ABS system is a complete failure which I admit is a distinct possibility.

 

So what you saying is that I could have saved a lot of money on gas since rotating tire has more friction than sliding one ?
All I need to do is push my truck with 4 wheels locked instead of letting them rotate.

 

Rotating tires have a static contact point with the road and sliding tires don't . Once your truck is sliding it's easier to move than it was when you first tried to get it to move if you locked the brakes. Try pushing a heavy box on a concrete surface and you'll have this epiphany.

It's clear someone is using there high school education to its fullest extent.

Anyways I'm done with the Science. This thread is well past the point where anyone cares to hear it. I dun der slid into a car because 'a my BAS. BAD ASS SPEED! I guessin' I betta blam da ABS cause I nev'r make mistakes drivin.

As OZ once said, didn't this start off as a discussion about 5 mph hickups in the ABS system of select Tacoma's...

 

So what you saying is that all i need is start driving, than hammer brakes and slide all way to work to get more MPGs ?

Oh I know science and stuff , doohickey thingys, I am just trying to understand yours

 

A moving tire has a static contact patch with the road. This is because the part of tire in contact with the road and the road are moving at exactly the same speed in opposite directions. This gives a net velocity between the contact patch of the tire and the road a value of zero, hence static friction applies. When you slide the tires contact patch stops moving but the road does not, and the difference in velocity means that kinetic friction applies. The coefficient of friction for a static surface contact is always higher than that of a kinetic surface contact.

Since ABS keeps the contact patch at relatively the same speed as the road, ABS can take advantage of the higher static coefficient of friction versus a sliding tires kinetic friction. This is why ABS was invented for high speed planes to shorten stopping distances on all surfaces. It works on ice, dry roads, and gravel when properly tuned. I'm thinking the problem with some trucks is the ABS is off in lala land for some reason. My 2013 TRD Sport Tacoma has a well functioning ABS IMHO, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with other trucks.

The only except to the rule is not even a real exception. On snow, mud, and sand a locked tire tends to pile material in it's way which stops the vehicle a lot faster than ABS. It has nothing to do with friction, at that point you're taking about plowing not stopping. This one of the reasons why disabling ABS offroad makes complete sense to me.

 

You have good data but a lot of wrong conclusions. I could go on but I am just going to Quote NHTSA here.....
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/equipment/absbrakes/page1-doom-04-26-2013.html

Now this guys run a lot of tests, they know ABS does not shorten stopping distance except in few specific conditions. Hence why their statement is formed in such a way.
I fully understand when its shorter when its longer and why. Its a mix of Physics with Mechanical Eng.

Is there Anybody else that would like to argue with NHTSA and tell us that ABS is there to shorted stopping distance? (Ie help brake)

 

Agree to disagree. Your link really doesn't say much. BTW, as I've said 2-3 times, a perfect threshold brake will always be better than ABS. The problem is that most people in emergency situations perform poorly and lock there brakes when they attempt to stop.

I also agree that ABS allows you to steer. Sliding does not. Steering is usually a key component of avoiding an accident.

 

Is stopping distance shorter with ABS?


No! From early commercials, it may have looked like you could stop on a dime. That instantaneous stop is not realistic. When braking on dry or wet roads your stopping distance will be about the same as with conventional brakes.

You should allow for a longer stopping distance with ABS than for conventional brakes when driving on gravel, slush, and snow. This is because the rotating tire will stay on top of this low traction road surface covering, and effectively "float" on this boundary layer.

A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp13082-abs2_e-215.htm

 

My Link answers question :
Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
And in short answer is
Sometimes - but that's not the purpose of ABS.
So for those people who have much less of "Sometimes" next question is "
Is ABS a benefit or a problem.
If I rarely hit conditions that make ABS help me stop faster, and more often hit condition when ABS extends my stopping distance, why do I have to have ABS in my truck?
If ABS will extend my stopping distance on snowed, iced intersection and makes me go in front of 18 wheeler I would rather have no ABS and stop before intersection. Steering is secondary because there is only couple feet of space that can save you (plow into light pole instead?)

 

I totally agree with the statement that locked tires stop faster than rotating tires on snow. I've never said anything to the contrary .

ABS has advantages for the general population, hence why it still exists.

As for you second statement, if you learn to listen to your link and drive according to the conditions and your ABS then you will never be in that situation . I always leave more room to stop when I know I'm in a situation that could limit my ability to stop. I also do it when I'm in any sort of traffic. Defensive driving eliminates 90 percent of accidents on the road. It's not the fault of the ABS when you put yourself in a no win situation.

BTW I have no problem with you turning off your ABS where ever you want to. I just don't believe it's something everyone should be doing "just because if you rush into an intersection your ABS may not stop as fast and leave you under an 18 wheeler". Instead, the statement should be "drive defensively and you won't have to worry about ending up under 18 wheelers at intersections."

 

RAWR.

Not really. I just think this is a really silly discussion with some old guys who want ther 1979 Toyota Pickup and all it's simplicity back!