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Adding Warn bumper and winch. Front suspension upgrades?

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by TCB2020, Dec 8, 2023.

  1. Dec 8, 2023 at 11:20 AM
    #1
    TCB2020

    TCB2020 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So, I'm 99.0% ready to pull the trigger on a Warn Semi-hidden front bumper (model # 106252) and a Warn VR EVO 12S winch (model # 103255) for my 2020 TRD Sport. The install shop recommended ARB Nitro Charger Sport Struts but based on my research, the Bilstein B8 5100's looks good and are $37 less than the ARB but $$ isn't the issue. $74 isn't going to kill the deal.

    My concern is that the ARB is listed as a strut and based on what I've read, struts replace the coil springs, the spring seats, shocks, strut bearing and steering knuckles. Is this even necessary and more importantly, is this information accurate?

    The total weight added to the front end per my conversation with Warn is 151.85 pounds. That's the gross, the net should be a bit less as some parts are obviously going to be removed during the installation.

    Most of my time off road will be forest service and back country roads. No rock crawling. I do a lot of solo trips and the winch is basically a little insurance policy. I'm one of those better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it guys.

    So, Bilstein or ARB? Thanks in advance for advice and suggestions.
     
  2. Dec 19, 2023 at 9:12 PM
    #2
    wi_taco

    wi_taco My skid plates give rocks taco flavored kisses

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    People use the terms struts and shocks interchangeably for our trucks. Potato, potatoe. They are shocks but serve the same purpose.

    Better way to look at it: no matter what people call them, it is a coilover assembly when you are talking about the front suspension. Coilovers consist of a shock (or strut, whatever...a tube thingy with gas and oil inside), a coil spring, and a top mount (sometimes called a top hat or what you called a strut bearing) which is just where the spring mounts on the top. Bottom spring mount is more or less integrated to the shock in some way, and often if they are adjustable it will have a lower seat and metal clips that move up and down to adjust at predesignated locations. Either way you are not doing anything to modify or replace the steering knuckle so cross that off the list.

    In your case, the ARB (previously branded as Old Man Emu or OME for short; ARB owns that brand now) and the Bilstens are quite similar. Likely can't go wrong with either. However if it were mine I'd go with the 5100s. If I'm not mistaken, ARB uses variable springs to achieve desired lift height. Problem there is if you want to change height you need to buy new springs. Bilsten uses adjustable lower spring perch slots. To adjust you don't need to buy anything, but you need to use a spring compressor and adjust the mounting position. Both have pros and cons but then we are getting into a deeper conversation about suspension and performance.

    Adding weight for the bumper and winch will have some impact but nobody can say exactly how much because no two trucks are the same. You can try to guess what height to mount the springs in anticipation of them sagging from the weight but it's likely you have to make your best guess and then adjust them later as needed.
     
  3. Dec 19, 2023 at 9:27 PM
    #3
    Waynebarkr

    Waynebarkr Well-Known Member

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    I have a 2020 TRD Off-Road.
    I put the 10S EVO winch on my front along with a new aluminum bumper and also new Fox 2.5" shocks. The net increase (ie after I subtracted the weight for the OEM bumper and related items that I removed was about 150 lbs--so somewhat more than what you have).
    In addition to the shocks, I replaced the OEM 600 lb/inch springs to heavier 700 lb/inch springs. Was a big mistake. The ride was much too stiff due to the heavier duty springs. I either need to put the OEM (600 lb/inch) ones back on or perhaps a set of 650 lb/in (halfway between the two stiffnesses) on.

    That said I think that either of the shocks you have will be fine. The difference in stiffness/height is made up by the set up of the springs if you set up the shocks the same way.
     
    AccuTune Offroad and TCB2020[OP] like this.
  4. Dec 20, 2023 at 5:04 AM
    #4
    TCB2020

    TCB2020 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the comments here. I did pull the trigger a few days ago and went with the Bilstein's, primarily due to their ability to be adjusted in increments. Installation is anticipated mid-January, so I'll post photos at that time.
     
    wi_taco likes this.
  5. Dec 20, 2023 at 8:13 AM
    #5
    Saskabush

    Saskabush Well-Known Member

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    Just FYI, 5100's aren't really adjustable. You need to take the shock off, compress the coil, remove the top hat, remove the coil, remove the coil perch, move a c-clip up, then reinstall everything again. So actually more work than just replacing the coilover entirely.
     
  6. Dec 20, 2023 at 9:38 AM
    #6
    wi_taco

    wi_taco My skid plates give rocks taco flavored kisses

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    False. Any shop worth their salt will have a good spring compressor that makes short work of this. I know because I lost my mind and bought a wall mounted spring compressor for my home shop. It's a cake job with the right tools. Swapping springs costs money for both parts and labor, swapping spring perches is just labor.
     
    TCB2020[OP] likes this.
  7. Dec 20, 2023 at 9:49 AM
    #7
    AccuTune Offroad

    AccuTune Offroad Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Very true. For the die hards out there, you could get your trucks scaled weights to help narrow down the corner weights. That would help determine the best spring rate for the truck (subtracting unsprung weight).
     
    Toy_Runner likes this.
  8. Dec 20, 2023 at 9:58 AM
    #8
    TCB2020

    TCB2020 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I realize it doesn't magically happen, but it can be done.
     
  9. Dec 20, 2023 at 10:01 AM
    #9
    Saskabush

    Saskabush Well-Known Member

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    How is any of what I said false? You just elaborated on the amount of work needed.

    Proper adjustable coilovers can be adjusted while on the truck. 5100's need to be removed and disassembled. That's the point I was making.
     
  10. Dec 20, 2023 at 10:33 AM
    #10
    wi_taco

    wi_taco My skid plates give rocks taco flavored kisses

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    You stated "Just FYI, 5100's aren't really adjustable." That is false. Just because you have to take them off to make the adjustment doesn't mean they are not adjustable. I have Fox 2.5 shocks that have to be taken off to adjust. But I can adjust them. Doesn't cost anything other than my time and labor, I can adjust them infinitely to suit my needs without having to buy any other parts.

    Do you know what's not adjustable? The ARB/OME shocks. Once you buy the spring and the shock, you can't adjust it any further. You have to buy more parts! And then you also have to spend time and labor to swap springs. The 5100's have the advantage for not having to buy extra parts which is nice for people sticking to budgets.

    "Proper adjustable coilovers can be adjusted while on the truck." That is only your opinion. It is not the definition of a coilover being adjustable. Just because some people adjust them while on the truck doesn't mean it's a good idea either. Big risk of damaging threads doing it that way. But I'm not diving deeper into that topic because it isn't related to what OP was asking about in this thread.

    My point is don't confuse OP. 5100 coilovers are in fact adjustable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2023
    Taco-Grinder likes this.
  11. Dec 20, 2023 at 11:01 AM
    #11
    Saskabush

    Saskabush Well-Known Member

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    Ok good. Just wanted to clarify that because some people see the word "adjustable" and think you can just easily turn something to make changes.
     
  12. Dec 20, 2023 at 11:25 AM
    #12
    Saskabush

    Saskabush Well-Known Member

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    There is absolutely nothing adjustable on 5100s. You have to completely re-assemble them. They are re-configurable, but not adjustable. The process to re-configure them is completely different from any other type of adjustable shock. Might be pedantic, but it's not incorrect.

    I just wanted to clarify that "adjustable" in regards to 5100s is not the same thing as other adjustable shocks that have a PRELOAD ADJUSTMENT collar on them. OP got my point. Not sure why you feel the need to make such a big deal out of this...
     

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