Alignment check / issues

Had ICON Stage 4 w/ Tubular UCA installed yesterday, and just got the truck back from the alignment shop. They spent 3.5 hours on it and couldn't get it in spec, with the issue being caster on passenger's side.

They say the recommended range is 0.9-2.4, and they try to aim for 1.4 "middle ground." Apparently they can set this on the driver's side, but the lowest they can do on the passenger's side is 2.7, so that's what they've set both wheels to.

I just called ICON and spoke with their tech, and they told me their own '16 Tacoma has caster set to 4.5 and 4.7, which is obviously drastically different. I don't know enough about alignment to say who's wrong.

Could the alignment shop be aiming for incorrect specs (notice they have my truck listed a 2014, not 2016 as it is), or what's the deal? I've got a 30-day window to get any alignment tweaks done under the shop's warranty. Suggestions?

For what it's worth, I'm on 265/70/17 KO2s stock sport wheels, and at 1 7/8" lift (from stock) in all four corners.

 

Hopefully some of the alignment savvy folks will chime in,
- a couple of things to note is your pre caster is ~4*, post caster is at 2.7*, ICON said your CAMBER should be close the their 4.5/4.7*? To clarify I think they were talking caster and that is pretty extreme, especially for your lift....

I would think post lift caster should be in the 3.0* range, which is good, camber and toe near 0 adjusted for spec.
Camber should not be in that 4* range, maybe you got some spell check errors or misunderstood...

First look at the numbers it looks pretty good with questionable pre-castor of 4* +

Are you having issues post alignment? Curious if you went to a shop familiar with lifted tacos....

 

My bad, I mixed up caster and camber when talking about ICON's truck. They said caster 4.5-4.7 (as you guessed).

The alignment guy said my "initial" 4* caster was only because new suspension was installed - that's not normal.

Can't really say whether there are any issues - only drove the 5 mins to get home (was on my lunch break to pick up the truck). I'll drive it about 60 mins tonight (30 each way) with a good mix of city and highway, so we'll see. I was/am mostly curious to find out whether the alignment set by the shop is okay/reasonable, or whether I need to have anything tweaked.

The shop was one of the Kal Tire locations - a chain. Not an "offroad" or "performance vehicles" shop by any means, but they are physically close, always give great service (applicable to all of their locations that I've dealt with), charge reasonable rates, and never try to bs me, so I like them.

// edit - and I guess I find it weird that the shop was able to adjust driver's side caster to 1.4, but passenger's side to only 2.7. Shouldn't the components and thus adjustable range be identical?

 

^^^ good question, seems a bit odd to me even being in the grey zone for alignment methodology and perfection. You do have ICON UCA's? so you should have a good range of adjust-ability , castor that is....maybe billy bob the mechanic is inexperienced....I would see how it drives for you, any rubbing, pulling, hard steering, etc....if so take it back....then again maybe just take it back to get it checked again if you got the coverage for that and see where you are after some off road roughage....

 

Yup, ICON tubular UCAs.

I've got 13th - 21st off work and will do a bit of road-tripping and exploring, so that'll give this setup a good trial run. Will still be in the 30-day window when I come back, so I guess if I discover any issues, I'll still be able to have the shop look at them.

 

1. Those min max numbers are not for the '16 truck.

2. Caster should be between around 1.0 and 2.8. 4 does not seem right.

3. Your toe is off and should be corrected.

Basically, you should shoot for 0 toe and 0 camber and ~ 3 caster.

 

Thanks, Stan.

Any suggestions on what I can tell the shop to do? Their top techs have "tried everything." I'd hate to have to pay another shop to do another alignment.

Just came back from driving - I feel rub when slowing down from 20-25kph and turning at the same time - encountered this twice tonight, once per side, both times facing downhill. Think that's due to the high caster?

 

I think your caster is spot on. I'm running 2.7 as well. That amount of positive caster moves your wheel forward which should make you rub less. I'm very surprised at your original caster measurements. That seems a little high.

Anyways, to be honest you're probably OK with the numbers you have, but I would ask that they try to set toe to 0 if possible. A little bit of positive camber is OK since it's a truck, and when you load the truck down you'll negate that positive camber.

 

They said that toe is as low as they can get it, so I don't think there's anything they can improve there. I'm rather concerned about the rubbing - it wasn't happening on OEM suspension with the same wheels/tires, and I definitely want to eliminate this problem.

 

Ah, so it wasn't rubbing with the stock UCA's on same wheels/tires?

Then it's 2 things.

1. Something incorrectly installed or defective UCA (probably not)
2. Alignment shop doesn't know what they are doing. (probably)

I would bite the bullet and go to a performance shop or even the dealer to re-check alignment and re-adjust. The UCAs should give you more positive caster (which looks like it did, since after you installed the suspension you got ~ 4 on caster)

Good luck man, I know this can be very frustrating. There is one thing I have learned, no alignment shops will ever come up with the same number. There are too many variables; like the machine they used, the tech, if the machine is in spec, etc...

 

Makes sense, thanks. I'll see if I can find a good local shop that knows what they're doing.

 

Call around and ask if the machine they use has the '16 specs. They may need to update.

I found a really good alignment shop and I still had to go in a few times to make things perfect.

 

Decided to get under the truck to have a peek and see what I see...

This is one of the "cam" adjustments (is that short for camber?), is it not? When I was speaking to ICON, they mentioned that on their truck they had "rolled lower rear cam all the way up, and front half-way up."



My gut feeling tells me these should be set the same way between the driver's side and the passenger's side, yet they are not. I saw at four of these, some are set vertically, some horizontally, some at an angle in between. Is setting these properly part of alignment, or part of suspension install?

 

Okay first of all we went to a Kal Tire that has a machine that they call a John bean. Those machines in my experience very touchy and very hit-and-miss. Second issue that I see is that the use specs for a 2014. I'm assuming you're running 33 inch tires and they have a minimum spec on your Castor. What you are wanting is to have a positive caster so it gets it off the body mounts. I would take it to another shop and get it done properly and go back and get your money back as they adjusted your specs to a completely different vehicle. As per what your numbers are toe should be zero or just toed in just a bit too crispen the steering up just a bit. Camber should be zero, but being aftermarket components zero on the machine isn't always zero in real time. But I have ran into an issue even on my own vehicle when I can't match up from side to side, sometimes something have a variance to it just to make it out by .5°. but if they had half a clue they would have re started the alignment to verify that they couldn't indeed match up from side to side. If they verify that they couldn't match it up, then there is other issues. My shop runs a John beane and there isn't a day that goes by that I wish i could light it on fire. I'm surprised that with what you have shown that the alignment tabs arnt folded over... Best of luck.

Now re looking at your specs you will not be able to get oem specs, those uppers are designed to post your castor positive, you will need zero camber, zero toe and 3.5 castor that way you stop rubbing at full lock. Now this is not gonna say your not gonna rub on the plastic up front, this will get you off the body mounts. And a little bird told me you have heavy steering, you will with the angles binding against eachother. Castor does indeed change steering performance, just think of a grocery cart wheel you have one that is sick the wrong way your turning is going to suffer drastically. You want more positive, to give you a more proper angle.

 

Thanks @Ghost848 - that's great into. Appreciate the help.

I've got another appointment at the same Kal Tire in a couple hours, so will see how that goes.

 

If they only have specs up to 2014 your waisting your time and money.. but good luck

 

Here are my numbers. Not lifted, but with 265/70/17 k02s. No rubbing.

 

I will not be paying them anything else (although I'm sure I'll have to argue this). I paid for a proper alignment, disclosed every aftermarket component when making the appointment and dropping the vehicle off, and was assured they can do this properly. Any screw ups are their problems. Fix it, or money back, IMO.

Today their main manager will be in, so I'll discuss the issue with him. Will definitely not be aiming for 'stock 2014' specs, but rather what you've listed above. Or better yet, refund and going to a proper alignment shop.

Also, I'm running 31s, not 33s. // edit - same identical tires as @stan23, above.

Thanks for posting your alignment specs, Stan!

 

31 and your rubbing!? My god... Lol that's not right at all. If I'm getting away with no rub with BMC and 35's there is something wrong.

 

In all reality he did do a prity good job... But with out proper specs for one no point, and modified uppers that push your caster positive 3.5° is say is your mark