Alignment / Steering??

Good afternoon everyone, and thank you for taking the time to read thru this.

I just bought a 2016 Toyota Tacoma Double Cab TRD Sport 4x4 and am was noticing a big drift to the left on any road that I am driving on (neighborhood or highway). I took it today to Les Schwab to have them do an alignment today and check for any other obvious concerns.

Please see the results of the alignment in the photo.

I have the Razor MT's 295/55/R20's w/ a leveling kit on it.

The Les Schwab tech said that the "toe" on both front tires was both to the left which would explain the drift to the left the truck was experiencing; also said everything else look good and tight (tie rods, etc.). When I drove it home though, I really did not notice much of a difference and it was still drifting. Thing is, it only drifts about 90% of the time, not always.

Could it be something in the steering? Steering wheel is straight, and no "play" in it. I know those are some big tires and I've heard a couple of times that it must be the roads...I just don't buy that. I understand that there will some "wander" but not to this extent.

Thank you very much for any insight/wisdom into this!!

 

Take your truck to a real alignment shop. These guys don't have a clue. Look at the numbers. First of all your camber is six tenths of a degree different from right to left. They should be the same. Usually the most important thing to check, well, at least the first thing you check when the vehicle is pulling, is the caster. The vehicle will always try and pull toward the side with the lower amount of caster, but, here, not only is your caster way way to little, it's also virtually identical left and right. Usually you want .3-.5 less on the left to counter road crown. Your truck should drive straight on a flat road, but it doesn't. Look at the rear numbers. You have toe in on one side and toe out on the other. That means your freaking rear axle is in there crooked. Fix that and re-do the front alignment and you should be good to go, but for the love of anything, don't go back to Les Schwab. Maybe Charles Schwab, but not Les.

 

Does it drift left with the steering wheel straight or requires the steering wheel to be turned left to go straight?

According to the sheet...
Your toe on both was not pointed to the left; toe was fine.

Your passenger cross-camber can cause a pull to the right, requiring you to steer left; especially if you have high offset wheels.

Your caster is pretty low. Probably going to need UCAs to fix that.

Your rear thrust is a bit much. If it's intermittent, maybe something shifting the rear axle.

Your cross-included angle is off; this will produce uneven scrub side-to-side and a pull. Did you use something to offset taco lean on your front lift?

 

This.

Also, check your wheels & tires for damage. Your wheel may be out of round or a weight could have been thrown off.

 

Thank you all very much for your answers and guidance!!

I don't know much about this stuff and now I certainly understand that I need to get this to some experts that are better suited to deal w/ this. I don't understand the toe, camber, caster stuff but y'all gave me enough to know that they don't know what they're doing and I need people w/ more expertise.

Sasquatchian - great info on the rear axle part; will make sure they look at that first. I may need Charles Schwab after all this LOL!!

splitbolt - the steering wheel is straight and it still drifts left...interesting thing is that it's not all the time, prob 90% of the time.

Borracho Loco - I will also make sure the wheels & tires are not damaged; they are relatively new, however, something else could be up w/ them.

Thank you again for all the very useful information and for taking the time to share your wisdom!!

 

All of the other suggestions you've gotten are fine, but you want to get the alignment right first and then move on to other culprits, if in fact a good alignment doesn't cure it. Honestly, right now, it's like driving a ladder truck where the rear wheels steer too but they're locked into one position. I've actually never seen a rear axle be more than one or two tenths of a degree from zero for either camber or toe. Did you or someone have suspension work done where they replaced the rear springs or had to loosen the shackles for part of what they did. Most of these chain store alignments are where the technician just gets it in the green and they're done, but they didn't even do that here. And even though I still have an account at Schwab, I so much prefer e-Trade over Schwab.

 

Rear axle is one problem, but honestly, you need 1.5 or more caster. Even with 3" leveling kits I can do better than that.

Upper aftermarket arms will cure this. But I think you need a better alignment shop.

 

Another thing to think about is the tires.
Had a 2012 accord where the car pulled to the left even with perfect alignment. Turns out the cheap tires that I had on there were the issue. I swapped the front two around and the issue went away.

also, isn’t there some tires that just do that? Drift to one side? I believe the st maxx do that.

 

Not saying it has anything to do with your alignment woes, bit what psi in those tires? You 'should' be at 36 psi.

 

Sasquatchian - I'm not sure the history behind the leveling kit or when it was done; I just bought the truck on Friday. I did find a 4x4 shop nearby and plan on calling them tomorrow. Hopefully they can dive into the issues that you have brought up...really appreciate it and it makes a lot of sense.

Can the tires in the rear be "reset" so they are driving straight or does the whole axle need to be replaced?

Bishop84 - thank you for this; hoping this other shop can shed light on this and I will absolutely mention the upper aftermarket arm.

pahaf - thank you; I think these tires are pretty good, but will dig into this.

splitbolt - great suggestion!!. They are all @ 40, so I may take them down to 36 and see if that makes any difference

Thank you all again very much!!

 

There should be enough wiggle room to get them straight. I think there are locating pins but they have a tiny bit of slop just for times like this. Remember that it does not have to move very much, and it was undoubtedly right when it left the factory. And the aforementioned advice about the caster is just as important. If this is as much positive caster that the front end will give you, then you'll have to upgrade the front suspension to give you the needed range of adjustment. And because the camber numbers are basically at zero, your axle is more than likely fine. At least it's not bent.

 

Dunno if this has anything to do with it but at the top of the alignment sheet it has 245 r16 on it.... could be throwing off the specs using that info?

 

A lot of information here that you really should ignore. 1. don't worry about the rear axle. Nothing to adjust and nothing that will cause a drift. 2. Don't worry about the camber. It won't cause a pull or drift. 3. Don't worry about the toe. Your steering axis is connected so when you look at toe in the front, you are looking at total toe. Left and right only dictate where your steering wheel centers. I realize that people are trying to help, but I'm not sure some really understand steering and suspension.

Now for a read of your alignment specs - They adjusted nothing. You were ripped off if they charged you. Nothing was adjusted. Check your tie rod ends for tool marks. I bet you will find nothing. They captured the initial specs, grabbed a wheel and turned it left and right or bounced the truck up and down and took new specs. Notice your Camber and Caster didn't change? There is a slight chance that you will find tool marks on your right tie rod end because he may have raised it to turn your steering wheel to the right to negate your view of the left pull. Trying to trick you into thinking it is tracking straight because the steering wheel is centered. Pretty shady whatever he did because nothing that was adjusted has anything to do with your issue.

Let's fix your issue. There are two things that will cause what you are seeing. It could be 1 or it could be both. Firstly your caster is low as stated by splitbolt. Even within spec it is low, but you are below spec. Low caster makes the steering light and you tend to get wander. Think of it like a wheel barrow. You put the weight in the front, it is easier to lift, but steering becomes a challenge that it goes wherever it wants. You put that weight further back and it tracks much better, but weights on your arms. Same thing happens on your truck. You don't want zero caster, but you start moving it back and you put a lot of stress on suspension components. For my truck I am happy in the 3 degree range. Others like more, but less than 1 you are looking for wander. Now caster can cause a pull even at higher caster, but that will occur when you have more than 1 degree of difference left and right. You have .1 difference. That will not cause a pull.

The second factor is the tires. Conicity in cheaper tires is almost always the problem. When the tread is placed on the casing, if not perfectly centered will cause the tires to go in the direction it is off. If you get 2 that are going the same way, you can get a pull. This can be usually fixed by rotating your tires. If you cross rotate them and your pull suddenly goes the other way, you know your problem. You can either mix them up by rotating one side or flipping a tire on a wheel. It isn't a defect, but just something you see with cheaper tires, but can happen with any brand.

One other area to consider is the difference between a drift and a pull. Sounds like you understand and certainly a pull to the left indicates that because roads are mostly crowned to the right so that is usually the direction of most complaints. A drift caused by low caster will amplify a pull caused by the tires.

My recommendation would be to look at the tires first then go back to the alignment. Get them to adjust the caster as much as possible. If they can't get you to 1.5, you will probably need new UCAs, but that could create some rubbing issues if you go to high.

 

The tire size doesn't impact the alignment. Angles are the same regardless of the tire size. Depending on what vehicle they select, could come up with different in spec numbers, but outside of a few vehicles you look for similar numbers on most vehicles depending on if they are rear or front wheel drive. Front wheel drive, you want a little negative toe. Rear wheel drive you want slightly positive. Manufacturers set those ranges, but if you set your toe to -.07 which is within spec, you will likely see tire wear.

 

Sungod - thank you very much for your response and wealth of information. I had a conversation w/ the dealership that I bought it from and they are going to step up and fix the issue, which I was very surprised about and very blessed by. Appreciate all you shared and I definitely learned a lot!!

 

My new word of the month

 

Just realized looking at the picture that your tires are new. Definitely the first thing to do is to is cross rotate the tires. Those tires are segment molded tires which would be less likely to suffer from conicity, but still could happen. One other obvious point that I skipped because it doesn't happen anymore thanks to tpms is air pressure, but assuming they put sensors in the aftermarket wheels, you should be able to eliminate that possibility by looking at your dash.