All Things Bikes and Tacos! (...and every vehicle imaginable)

whitedlite · Sep 2, 2021

Can someone give me a long story short?

I’m on my phone will read on pc later

ridge said: ↑

This is gonna sound very dense and very involved but I promise; it takes longer for the slow cooker to heat/melt the wax than the entire cleaning and re-waxing process.

I am running the same SS chain that has been on the MTB through three full race seasons now and it measures .50 after 3 years and 2200 miles. My road chain has even better mileage at over 7,000 miles currently and still measures .25 on the CC2... paying attention to and minding the details really matter... get the chain as CLEAN and free of gunk as possible before re-waxing. Your drivetrain will last longer, have less wear, and less noise overall. No more gunk building up on the derailleur spring, jockey wheels, between cogs, nowhere.

I use exclusively Wipperman chains and links on all bikes as they've given me the best mileage and least maintenance.

Setting a procedure and system helps, a lot!

After purchasing the chain, the ultrasonic cleaner, the wax, and setting my mind to it; I quickly found out that I needed a repeatable process. I went to Home Depot, into the paint department and purchased 8 of the 1qt paint containers with lids, 1 can of mineral spirits, 1 can of denatured alcohol, and another bag-o-rags (I always have one of my toolbox drawers stuffed full of these). I then went back to Amazon and purchased a hot wax warmer (like for removing body hair) as they are designed to hold wax at melting temperature and have a removable container to swap out wax. Bonus that it was supplied with a pack of those tongue depressors to stir and agitate the wax with the chain in it.

Cleaning the old chains that were already crudded and dirty with wet lube were actually the longest piece of the process... I mean REALLY trying to get them clean and free of debris from in-between all the links. The ultrasonic cleaner definitely helps but is not perfect. I've been using full strength SimpleGreen in the ultrasonic but may try something stronger a bit later. The SG seems to work fine when heated to about 60C, and I run the ultrasonic part for 10 minutes.

So, the process thus far is:

Remove chain and place in preheated ultrasonic cleaner (if you want to go this route), I heat mine at 150F (67C) and run the ultrasonic for 10 minutes, then assess and maybe brush while it's in there.

Remove chain, dry with compressed air or clean towel, and place in container of CLEAN mineral spirits. Agitate it well and ensure the whole chain is submerged. Allow to soak for as long as you have time (it won't corrode in there) After soaking, look at the container bottom to check for released debris/residue missed in the ultrasonic. Either agitate well in the Spirits, or may need a deeper cleaning in the ultrasonic depending on what conditions the chain was exposed to (MTB, mud, etc...)

Remove from the Spirits, blow with compressed air or dry with rag, and dump in a container of CLEAN denatured alcohol, agitate well and look for any debris/residue to release and fall to the bottom. If no debris/residue, remove, allow to dry completely before applying wax.

While doing all of the above, the wax should be preheating and melted (I set at 200F). Agitate the wax with a stir stick to move the Moly and Graphite around, then coil/dump the dry chain in while keeping the twisted wire keeper visible for grabbing. Agitate the chain well throughout the wax until no bubbles visible, then grab by wire and remove (taking care to not let it fling hot wax on you or your shop) THE CHAIN IS HOT (DAMHIK) and should be hung somewhere it won't be in the way or bumped and can drip hot wax without worry. (I hang mine from my vise initially and it drips on my mat)

Once cool and dry, the chain will be completely stiff and will hold that shape until each link is broken loose from its waxy coating. Breaking each link is necessary before installation, but the bonus is that the chain being already coated can be hung and ready for use without worry of being exposed to corrosion/oxidation.

All total, it takes me about an hour per session, but most of that was with the heating/melting of the wax and additional deep cleaning of the older, greased chains. As the chains are cleaned/waxed going forward, the time is reduced to about 15 minutes per session after melting the wax.

It really works better to have a chain already clean, waxed and hanging ready to use when you're removing the old one. Dump the "dirty" one in one of the containers w/ spirits, agitate and let it sit for a few hours or overnight. Batching multiple chains per cleaning/waxing session is highly recommended.

Tangential items that I adapted to make the process easier:

Motorcycle safety wire and wire twisting pliers. (I cut a 3-4" section of wire, feed the master links on it, then run the ends through the holes in the chain ends and twist it all together to act as a hook and grab out of the solutions and so the links stay with the chain at all times.)

Pegboard hooks to hang the chains as they cool and for future use.

Labels for designated chain use (road, mtb, single speed gear combo)

Extra 1qt containers with lids to transfer the previously dirty Min Spirits and Den Alcohol that has settled into those designated containers, then wiping the collected residue in the bottom out with a paper towel.

I did wax my MTB chain before that mudfest race from a few weekends ago and can say that, after the race, when I hosed the bike off, the chain was absolutely clean to the touch. No greasy residue, no stuck mud/oil/grease crud on/in the links. It just washed off clean and didn't take nearly as long to go through the next waxing session.

Like I said... it sounds like a long process but all total; it takes about 15 minutes to clean and hot wax one chain.

This chain has 7,000 miles on it and still measures as new on the CC2:

Click to expand...

BattleKat · Sep 2, 2021

whitedlite said: ↑

Can someone give me a long story short?

I’m on my phone will read on pc later
Click to expand...

"Lube your Chain". That's the tweet.

levie125 · Sep 2, 2021

dman100 said: ↑

Thanks for the tips. I may just go back to the Dumonde that my wife insists on using so we have just one lube bottle to share. I think I still have a bottle of Phil Wood that I bought in 1985, or maybe 1975. It’s tenacious in more ways than one.
Click to expand...

I, too, share one bottle of lube with my wife!

jjones.yota · Sep 2, 2021

levie125 said: ↑

I, too, share one bottle of lube with my wife!
Click to expand...

I, too, share one bottle of lube with your wife!

wait a minute…

[TACOMA] · Sep 2, 2021

ridge said: ↑

This is gonna sound very dense and very involved but I promise; it takes longer for the slow cooker to heat/melt the wax than the entire cleaning and re-waxing process.

I am running the same SS chain that has been on the MTB through three full race seasons now and it measures .50 after 3 years and 2200 miles. My road chain has even better mileage at over 7,000 miles currently and still measures .25 on the CC2... paying attention to and minding the details really matter... get the chain as CLEAN and free of gunk as possible before re-waxing. Your drivetrain will last longer, have less wear, and less noise overall. No more gunk building up on the derailleur spring, jockey wheels, between cogs, nowhere.

I use exclusively Wipperman chains and links on all bikes as they've given me the best mileage and least maintenance.

Setting a procedure and system helps, a lot!

After purchasing the chain, the ultrasonic cleaner, the wax, and setting my mind to it; I quickly found out that I needed a repeatable process. I went to Home Depot, into the paint department and purchased 8 of the 1qt paint containers with lids, 1 can of mineral spirits, 1 can of denatured alcohol, and another bag-o-rags (I always have one of my toolbox drawers stuffed full of these). I then went back to Amazon and purchased a hot wax warmer (like for removing body hair) as they are designed to hold wax at melting temperature and have a removable container to swap out wax. Bonus that it was supplied with a pack of those tongue depressors to stir and agitate the wax with the chain in it.

Cleaning the old chains that were already crudded and dirty with wet lube were actually the longest piece of the process... I mean REALLY trying to get them clean and free of debris from in-between all the links. The ultrasonic cleaner definitely helps but is not perfect. I've been using full strength SimpleGreen in the ultrasonic but may try something stronger a bit later. The SG seems to work fine when heated to about 60C, and I run the ultrasonic part for 10 minutes.

So, the process thus far is:

Remove chain and place in preheated ultrasonic cleaner (if you want to go this route), I heat mine at 150F (67C) and run the ultrasonic for 10 minutes, then assess and maybe brush while it's in there.

Remove chain, dry with compressed air or clean towel, and place in container of CLEAN mineral spirits. Agitate it well and ensure the whole chain is submerged. Allow to soak for as long as you have time (it won't corrode in there) After soaking, look at the container bottom to check for released debris/residue missed in the ultrasonic. Either agitate well in the Spirits, or may need a deeper cleaning in the ultrasonic depending on what conditions the chain was exposed to (MTB, mud, etc...)

Remove from the Spirits, blow with compressed air or dry with rag, and dump in a container of CLEAN denatured alcohol, agitate well and look for any debris/residue to release and fall to the bottom. If no debris/residue, remove, allow to dry completely before applying wax.

While doing all of the above, the wax should be preheating and melted (I set at 200F). Agitate the wax with a stir stick to move the Moly and Graphite around, then coil/dump the dry chain in while keeping the twisted wire keeper visible for grabbing. Agitate the chain well throughout the wax until no bubbles visible, then grab by wire and remove (taking care to not let it fling hot wax on you or your shop) THE CHAIN IS HOT (DAMHIK) and should be hung somewhere it won't be in the way or bumped and can drip hot wax without worry. (I hang mine from my vise initially and it drips on my mat)

Once cool and dry, the chain will be completely stiff and will hold that shape until each link is broken loose from its waxy coating. Breaking each link is necessary before installation, but the bonus is that the chain being already coated can be hung and ready for use without worry of being exposed to corrosion/oxidation.

All total, it takes me about an hour per session, but most of that was with the heating/melting of the wax and additional deep cleaning of the older, greased chains. As the chains are cleaned/waxed going forward, the time is reduced to about 15 minutes per session after melting the wax.

It really works better to have a chain already clean, waxed and hanging ready to use when you're removing the old one. Dump the "dirty" one in one of the containers w/ spirits, agitate and let it sit for a few hours or overnight. Batching multiple chains per cleaning/waxing session is highly recommended.

Tangential items that I adapted to make the process easier:

Motorcycle safety wire and wire twisting pliers. (I cut a 3-4" section of wire, feed the master links on it, then run the ends through the holes in the chain ends and twist it all together to act as a hook and grab out of the solutions and so the links stay with the chain at all times.)

Pegboard hooks to hang the chains as they cool and for future use.

Labels for designated chain use (road, mtb, single speed gear combo)

Extra 1qt containers with lids to transfer the previously dirty Min Spirits and Den Alcohol that has settled into those designated containers, then wiping the collected residue in the bottom out with a paper towel.

I did wax my MTB chain before that mudfest race from a few weekends ago and can say that, after the race, when I hosed the bike off, the chain was absolutely clean to the touch. No greasy residue, no stuck mud/oil/grease crud on/in the links. It just washed off clean and didn't take nearly as long to go through the next waxing session.

Like I said... it sounds like a long process but all total; it takes about 15 minutes to clean and hot wax one chain.

This chain has 7,000 miles on it and still measures as new on the CC2:

Click to expand...

Kuddos to you.. but nah to all that . Lol

levie125 · Sep 2, 2021

jjones.yota said: ↑

I, too, share one bottle of lube with your wife!

wait a minute…
Click to expand...

Wait, what? Lol

str8edgMTBMXer · Sep 2, 2021

SenatorBlutarsky said: ↑

If it helps confirm you made a good purchase... my 1up rack has been through 4 years of heavy use and is still going strong. It's a bit squeaky (wd40 should fix that) and has a little bit of vertical play. It's otherwise in fantastic condition with no signs of needing replacement.
Click to expand...

same here...new in 2015. Lived 24/7 on the RAV 4, and now on my Tacoma. I started with the 2 rack super duty, and now have 2 add ons, for a total of 4 if I need. Usually run with 3 on, and no problems. Survives the traditional Columbus Ohio winter conditions of 2 tons of salt they put on the road for every 1/10th of an inch of snow

barelfly · Sep 2, 2021

Man - you guys are awesome! All these posts make me feel great about my 1up order today. Stoked for it to get in - and more so knowing that none of my bikes will have to be subjected to being assaulted by some type of rubber strap holding them down across the top tube!!!!

And on a side note - I had a killer ride today - 15 miles and 1.7k elevation. Man, riding a FS bike is amazing. And, I love my home town. These mountains, my roots run deep in them!

dman100 · Sep 2, 2021

I just watched a few random chain lube vids on YT and found a lot of MucOff fans. But one guy felt that it attracted a lot of gunk which is my issue. To the guy who removes his chain, uses heat, ultrasonic etc, hats off but I don’t want to bother. And my low chain wear over a few thousand miles shows that my technique (and MucOff dry) is OK. It’s the crud on my driveline, which requires serious scraping with a metal blade to remove, that was annoying me. It does seem to make a difference to put it on well before a ride, which I never do, so I’ll try that and see if it attracts less crud that way. And if anyone wants to watch a pretty objective, though maybe not real world, test check this out https://youtu.be/FbFNrnQ4QUo

neatoneto · Sep 3, 2021

New decals on the fork and shock. Now I have to swap the damper to a Grip2 to make it a real "Performance Elite"

Pablo8 · Sep 3, 2021

dman100 said: ↑

I just watched a few random chain lube vids on YT and found a lot of MucOff fans. But one guy felt that it attracted a lot of gunk which is my issue. To the guy who removes his chain, uses heat, ultrasonic etc, hats off but I don’t want to bother. And my low chain wear over a few thousand miles shows that my technique (and MucOff dry) is OK. It’s the crud on my driveline, which requires serious scraping with a metal blade to remove, that was annoying me. It does seem to make a difference to put it on well before a ride, which I never do, so I’ll try that and see if it attracts less crud that way. And if anyone wants to watch a pretty objective, though maybe not real world, test check this out https://youtu.be/FbFNrnQ4QUo
Click to expand...

Toward the end, he says "Squirt is sticky". No. Squirt is EXTREMELY sticky when dry. It amazes me it didn't lose the sand test. And you say MucOff is sticky as well? Hahahha I just bought some yesterday. We will see!!

piff · Sep 3, 2021

been really happy with wd-40 dry lube!

whitedlite · Sep 3, 2021

whitedlite · Sep 3, 2021

buy one of these, fill with cleaner of some sorts, put chain in it and let it go to town. lol

I usually just wrap my chain in a rag and spin it a few times.

honda50r · Sep 3, 2021

backcountryj said: ↑

Sell it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. All good points

whitedlite said: ↑

Yeah, I'm leaning this way too. I guess I just feel bad with it being a gift. I do think it's a perfect bike even for a beginner. Lowest tier stuff from top companies, so still good stuff all things considered for what majority of people are on.

My biggest keepsake on the bike is, brand being Santa Cruz and warranty, the colorway and overall aesthetics, 27.5 because who even knows if she could touch without taking an upper tube to the taint every time she steps off the bike if it was 29.

I know she's overbiked 100%, but when trying to get someone into biking the ride being comfortable probably outweighs any efficiency and peppiness.
Click to expand...

You need to be honest with yourself if it was actually a thoughtful gift for her or "hey I bought this expensive bike please ride with me". Sounds like she doesn't care that much so I think you're off the hook. Also hate to break it to you but she won't notice the difference riding a $5k Santa Cruz or a $2k used 27.5 full suspension in the future

TenBeers said: ↑

OK now, whoah. Now you mentioned that it was a gift (or maybe I missed that). It is no longer yours to make decisions with. It's gotta be her decision to sell. I didn't get to nearly 30 years of marriage by selling gifts I gave to my wife. Don't start off on the wrong foot.
Click to expand...

ridge said: ↑

This is gonna sound very dense and very involved but I promise; it takes longer for the slow cooker to heat/melt the wax than the entire cleaning and re-waxing process.

I am running the same SS chain that has been on the MTB through three full race seasons now and it measures .50 after 3 years and 2200 miles. My road chain has even better mileage at over 7,000 miles currently and still measures .25 on the CC2... paying attention to and minding the details really matter... get the chain as CLEAN and free of gunk as possible before re-waxing. Your drivetrain will last longer, have less wear, and less noise overall. No more gunk building up on the derailleur spring, jockey wheels, between cogs, nowhere.

I use exclusively Wipperman chains and links on all bikes as they've given me the best mileage and least maintenance.

Setting a procedure and system helps, a lot!

After purchasing the chain, the ultrasonic cleaner, the wax, and setting my mind to it; I quickly found out that I needed a repeatable process. I went to Home Depot, into the paint department and purchased 8 of the 1qt paint containers with lids, 1 can of mineral spirits, 1 can of denatured alcohol, and another bag-o-rags (I always have one of my toolbox drawers stuffed full of these). I then went back to Amazon and purchased a hot wax warmer (like for removing body hair) as they are designed to hold wax at melting temperature and have a removable container to swap out wax. Bonus that it was supplied with a pack of those tongue depressors to stir and agitate the wax with the chain in it.

Cleaning the old chains that were already crudded and dirty with wet lube were actually the longest piece of the process... I mean REALLY trying to get them clean and free of debris from in-between all the links. The ultrasonic cleaner definitely helps but is not perfect. I've been using full strength SimpleGreen in the ultrasonic but may try something stronger a bit later. The SG seems to work fine when heated to about 60C, and I run the ultrasonic part for 10 minutes.

So, the process thus far is:

Remove chain and place in preheated ultrasonic cleaner (if you want to go this route), I heat mine at 150F (67C) and run the ultrasonic for 10 minutes, then assess and maybe brush while it's in there.

Remove chain, dry with compressed air or clean towel, and place in container of CLEAN mineral spirits. Agitate it well and ensure the whole chain is submerged. Allow to soak for as long as you have time (it won't corrode in there) After soaking, look at the container bottom to check for released debris/residue missed in the ultrasonic. Either agitate well in the Spirits, or may need a deeper cleaning in the ultrasonic depending on what conditions the chain was exposed to (MTB, mud, etc...)

Remove from the Spirits, blow with compressed air or dry with rag, and dump in a container of CLEAN denatured alcohol, agitate well and look for any debris/residue to release and fall to the bottom. If no debris/residue, remove, allow to dry completely before applying wax.

While doing all of the above, the wax should be preheating and melted (I set at 200F). Agitate the wax with a stir stick to move the Moly and Graphite around, then coil/dump the dry chain in while keeping the twisted wire keeper visible for grabbing. Agitate the chain well throughout the wax until no bubbles visible, then grab by wire and remove (taking care to not let it fling hot wax on you or your shop) THE CHAIN IS HOT (DAMHIK) and should be hung somewhere it won't be in the way or bumped and can drip hot wax without worry. (I hang mine from my vise initially and it drips on my mat)

Once cool and dry, the chain will be completely stiff and will hold that shape until each link is broken loose from its waxy coating. Breaking each link is necessary before installation, but the bonus is that the chain being already coated can be hung and ready for use without worry of being exposed to corrosion/oxidation.

All total, it takes me about an hour per session, but most of that was with the heating/melting of the wax and additional deep cleaning of the older, greased chains. As the chains are cleaned/waxed going forward, the time is reduced to about 15 minutes per session after melting the wax.

It really works better to have a chain already clean, waxed and hanging ready to use when you're removing the old one. Dump the "dirty" one in one of the containers w/ spirits, agitate and let it sit for a few hours or overnight. Batching multiple chains per cleaning/waxing session is highly recommended.

Tangential items that I adapted to make the process easier:

Motorcycle safety wire and wire twisting pliers. (I cut a 3-4" section of wire, feed the master links on it, then run the ends through the holes in the chain ends and twist it all together to act as a hook and grab out of the solutions and so the links stay with the chain at all times.)

Pegboard hooks to hang the chains as they cool and for future use.

Labels for designated chain use (road, mtb, single speed gear combo)

Extra 1qt containers with lids to transfer the previously dirty Min Spirits and Den Alcohol that has settled into those designated containers, then wiping the collected residue in the bottom out with a paper towel.

I did wax my MTB chain before that mudfest race from a few weekends ago and can say that, after the race, when I hosed the bike off, the chain was absolutely clean to the touch. No greasy residue, no stuck mud/oil/grease crud on/in the links. It just washed off clean and didn't take nearly as long to go through the next waxing session.

Like I said... it sounds like a long process but all total; it takes about 15 minutes to clean and hot wax one chain.

This chain has 7,000 miles on it and still measures as new on the CC2:

Click to expand...

Woah. Kudos on the motivation. Reminds me of sawyers that use the same chainsaw chain for decades. Although it seems like a shit-ton of work I can appreciate the dedication to keeping it going instead of simply buying new every few months

113tac · Sep 3, 2021

dman100 said: ↑

I just watched a few random chain lube vids on YT and found a lot of MucOff fans. But one guy felt that it attracted a lot of gunk which is my issue. To the guy who removes his chain, uses heat, ultrasonic etc, hats off but I don’t want to bother. And my low chain wear over a few thousand miles shows that my technique (and MucOff dry) is OK. It’s the crud on my driveline, which requires serious scraping with a metal blade to remove, that was annoying me. It does seem to make a difference to put it on well before a ride, which I never do, so I’ll try that and see if it attracts less crud that way. And if anyone wants to watch a pretty objective, though maybe not real world, test check this out https://youtu.be/FbFNrnQ4QUo
Click to expand...

I was not a fan of muc-off. It worked fine but didn't seem to last long and like you said, it causes a lot of build-up. I felt like it needed new lube before every ride. I switched to SCC Slick after I think @Gunshot-6A recommended it and I am definitely a fan.

TenBeers · Sep 3, 2021

dman100 said: ↑

I just watched a few random chain lube vids on YT and found a lot of MucOff fans. But one guy felt that it attracted a lot of gunk which is my issue. To the guy who removes his chain, uses heat, ultrasonic etc, hats off but I don’t want to bother. And my low chain wear over a few thousand miles shows that my technique (and MucOff dry) is OK. It’s the crud on my driveline, which requires serious scraping with a metal blade to remove, that was annoying me. It does seem to make a difference to put it on well before a ride, which I never do, so I’ll try that and see if it attracts less crud that way. And if anyone wants to watch a pretty objective, though maybe not real world, test check this out https://youtu.be/FbFNrnQ4QUo
Click to expand...

Interesting video and tests, just not sure how they really apply in the real world. The sling test was weird, and for the wet test he should have captured the weight of the lubricant added and done a percentage of lube lost. He also didn't really follow the instructions on the dry lubes, although I give him credit on a couple of the tests for going back and using them properly.

I get the best results using a wax lube regularly, either after a ride or the night before so it has time to dry. I mostly use White Lightning Clean Ride. I knock off any dirt with a brush, run the chain through a terry cloth towel, then apply the lube and let it dry. Run it through a clean towel again. Chains pretty much stay spotless and don't collect much in the way of dirt and dust.

In the end, I don't think it matters much what lube you use as long as you wipe down/clean your chain and lube it regularly. Except WD-40, don't use WD-40. If you do, make sure you spray it all over your bike, including brake pads and rotors.

neatoneto · Sep 3, 2021

TenBeers said: ↑

Except WD-40, don't use WD-40. If you do, make sure you spray it all over your bike, including brake pads and rotors.
Click to expand...

Can we pin this somewhere?

Gunshot-6A · Sep 3, 2021

113tac said: ↑

I was not a fan of muc-off. It worked fine but didn't seem to last long and like you said, it causes a lot of build-up. I felt like it needed new lube before every ride. I switched to SCC Slick after I think @Gunshot-6A recommended it and I am definitely a fan.
Click to expand...

Love me some SCC lube.

whitedlite · Sep 3, 2021

honda50r said: ↑

Agreed. All good points

You need to be honest with yourself if it was actually a thoughtful gift for her or "hey I bought this expensive bike please ride with me". Sounds like she doesn't care that much so I think you're off the hook. Also hate to break it to you but she won't notice the difference riding a $5k Santa Cruz or a $2k used 27.5 full suspension in the future

Woah. Kudos on the motivation. Reminds me of sawyers that use the same chainsaw chain for decades. Although it seems like a shit-ton of work I can appreciate the dedication to keeping it going instead of simply buying new every few months
Click to expand...

Well if I can't source a box, the bike may not be selling unless buyer wants to pay for the box. I'm not paying $200 for a box of cardboard, and local shops told me they currently do not have anything I can have or purchase at a reasonable rate.

We shall see.

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