AllPro Offroad Screwed me

Also OP stated he order a bare steel bumper, Bumper in pics is powder coated or painted or something? Im assuming this happened in the month it sat in OPs shop, however couldn't what ever caused the misalignment happened during powder coating? Isn't that also why most guys test fit a bare steel bumper on their trucks?

 

i had a similar issue about 1-1/2 years ago, i bought a front bumper for my first gen, fitment was a bit off, i called all pro, they were a complete pleasure to deal with, very helpful and fixed my problem in a timely manner, subbed to see the outcome.

 

No, the powder coat could not cause that kind of misalignment. The thickness of PC could cause bolts to not thread, or if the tolerance is so tight to not align with a hole but we are talking 1/16 for laymans measurements. Like a shackle not fitting in an hole if both the bumper and shackle have been PC.

 

Not sure why this thread has to be clean. All pro only needs to respond to the OP.

 

Ive probably ordered a dozen products from @allpro . Ive never had any customer service issues. I also ordered front and rear bumpers and full skids.

 

I immediately called AllPro and got Adam, Who was not in a position of power but assured me it would be handled. He promised a callback with within the hr. as john was busy with a customer. 3hrs later (3:30pm) I called again, and learned John(the owner) had left for the day instead of calling me back. I asked for his cell number but was refused.

You spoke with Sam when you initially called. He took a message and gave his best estimate on when a call could be returned. Unfortunately the owner, Jon, has a sporadic schedule and many of us are not kept apprised of Jon’s schedule. To address the issue with the mobile number – as an owner/operator we do not give out cell phone numbers as a policy. Sam does not have permission to give out either of our cell phone numbers.


As my wife drives this truck, I needed a bumper on it, so I told Adam I would plasma cut new holes in the bumper plate that would allow fitment. He was fine with this, and requested photos, which I sent.

Once our bumpers are purchased and received, it then becomes the customer’s property. We do not tell the customer they cannot cut, add to, or perform any other modifications to their bumper. We believe the customer knows their capabilities and if they wish to do any modifications, it is at their own risk. When speaking with Sam, you did not ask for direction on how to fix it; you simply stated that you were going to cut the bumper to make it fit. It is our policy to ask for photos so we can see if there is anything going on that would cause a fitment issue. This is requested prior to suggesting any modifications, as in most case, the issue could have been an oversight on the customer and sometimes a quality control issue within that we always try to make right and remedy before issues reach this point.


The next two days were spent attempting to get John on the phone. On day two, I finally got a callback from Tracy Bundrant (johns wife) Who, after vehemently denying any possibility that their bumper could be faulty, very rudely asked what i wanted. I maintained civility, and asked if she had seen the photos. She said she had. I calmly explained that I believed their product to be a good one, I just got a fluke, and requested a replacement, rather than a full refund. "You can talk to John" she snapped, and ended the call.

You are correct, the following day I received a call from you - an unhappy customer because you had not heard back from Jon. Jon was out of the office so instead of just taking a message and passing it along, I took the call to work through the situation with you. I asked you to describe the issue and you immediately interrupted me explaining that the bumper was built wrong. Trying to understand the full scope of your issues I explained the process that our bumpers goes through from start to finish to get to the customer. I did this so that we could figure out where the issue may have taken place in the build process. You interrupted me several times explaining that you knew how it worked as you are a fabricator. I tried to further explain that our bumpers are sent to a laser cutter (as we do not own one in-house) to be cut and built. I suggested that we needed to look into other reasons that the bumper wouldn’t fit because it most likely wasn’t that it was built wrong but that it could have been damaged during shipping, etc. (We do build all of our armor on a welding table jig – now this doesn’t mean things can still be slightly off, but it helps minimize most production issues) At this point you were even more upset and you stated “Don’t blame it on the truck because it is new.” Mind you, I hadn’t even considered blaming it on the truck. It seemed that you were calling to set me straight. Here at All-Pro we are all about making the customer happy and I was trying to get a reasonable end result with the issue at hand. I asked you repeatedly what you wanted. (If a customer has any issue, they know exactly what they want when they call - ie: exchange, refund, direction, etc). You explained that you just wanted the bumper fixed. I agreed with you and told you that Jon would still have to speak with you to understand the issues. Sometimes I cannot get a resolution for a customer and Jon has to address it. He is the end all be all decision maker.


John called me back in 5 minutes. I could tell he was ready to fight. I attempted to de-escalate a situation I still wasn't sure how got escalated. Once again, I explained I believed his product was great. I have seen one of these bumpers installed on a friends '13 taco, and it was a good fit. I told him I was sure I just got an oddball, probably got damaged in shipping or something. I just wanted to talk to him about getting a replacement.

He calmed down, and told me that the truck must have been damaged in an accident, as there is no way the bumper could be at fault. After all, they are made on a jig. He sells 50 a month, He claimed, this is the first one with an issue. (I discovered AP does NOT build these in house, but contracts them out to a fab shop in CA. AllPro is located in MT. my bumper was shipped directly from CA)

I feel like Jon's attitude towards you may have been inferred incorrectly. Jon is not a "let's fight it out" kind of guy; he will however stand his ground.

You are somewhat correct in your statement. We do not laser cut, bend, or build these bumpers in-house at our Montana location. They are made at our laser cutter in California; however, your bumper was shipped from our warehouse in Montana, as are all of our bumpers.


I assured him the truck was NOT in an accident, we purchased new, and it only had 6k miles on it. I asked him if he had seen the photos I sent him of the bumper mounted with the holes clearanced to fit. He said yes he had seen the photos, and maintained that it was the truck.

We have had an experience in the past where it was the frame on the truck, not our bumper, so this is always a possibility. As we were trying to work through your issue we didn’t want to leave any possibilities out. As a fabricator yourself, we hope you can understand that we wanted to leave no rock un-turned in searching for the cause of your issue.


I also acknowledged (albeit extremely unlikely) that perhaps the Tacoma was built incorrectly and the bumper was OK. He told me to send it back and he would look at it. I explained that if I sent it back, the truck would have no bumper on it and couldn't be driven.

I proposed that he fit a bumper to a Tacoma in his shop, confirm fitment, and send me that one. I assured Him I would pay for the second bumper up front, including shipping. If this bumper did not fit my truck, then the burden would be on me. If the second bumper DID fit my truck, then i would send the 1st one back, on his dime.

John agreed to this solution, but said He needed a week or two to get his daughters Tacoma in his shop so he could check fitment.

All of this could be true. We have not heard back from you since the last time you and Jon spoke. We do want to make this right for you and customer service is a huge priority at All-Pro. We stand behind our products and what we send out to customers. We have the truck scheduled to come in this Friday for fitment.


After 10 days, I called John and couldn't reach him yet again. Another two days went by, and I finally got John. I politely asked on the status of our arrangement. This time, it was as if I was talking to a different person.

He was completely indifferent to my problem. He said he did not have a taco in to check fitment. "He didn't want my bumper back anyway, because he couldn't sell it after I ruined it by cutting new holes in it." He told me I should have called him before I "cut it apart" I reminded him of the many messages I left for him, and the days that went by before I heard from him.

He ignored that, and again stated There is now way his bumper is wrong. Our Tacoma is bent. Again used the reason that they are built on a jig.

I said, I just want to check it against a bumper that you personally have ok'd, per our agreement. John told me he would sell me another bumper, but would not return mine. I asked to just return mine then, as Tracy had originally offered. He again claimed I ruined a perfectly good bumper, and insulted my intelligence by saying "what kind of moron cuts up a new bumper?"

We understand that you are upset about this issue but “fluffing” the story to have Jon call you a moron is a bit overzealous; don’t you agree? Jon does not use terms like this, he simply asked why you would cut a bumper up like that as you own a fabrication shop and stated, “who does that?”.

I finally got him to calm down by reminding him of all the communication we had had over this. And how he had seen the photos before agreeing to return the bumper. He finally agreed to return it on my dime, and promised to refund me IF, only IF, he determined the bumper to be faulty, which it definitely wasn't.

I sensed that the bumper would not be found to be faulty under any circumstance. I asked him if he would be willing to send me an email stating his new terms, so we would have some kind of continuity. He agreed to send it.

It has now been a month, and John will neither return my calls, nor send me the promised email.
I should have contacted my CC the instant I found a problem. I believe John was only stringing me out until the 60 day credit card grace period had passed, and I could not longer file a claim. I am out $1000 for a bumper that does not fit my truck.

I'm sorry we haven't returned your calls. I haven't received any messages from you to return. At this point I can’t agree with your statements. Accusing Jon of stringing you along to be out of your 60-day grace period is completely out of line. I personally offered you a refund and you wouldn't take it when originally offered by me. I have never refused you a refund so whether or not you were within your grace period has never been my concern. We can go on and on about he said she said but at the end of the day we are a company and we have standards to uphold.

We know that you are unhappy with the product you received and it is up to us to make it right and remedy the situation. We have offered and will continue to offer you a full refund for the bumper. Keep in mind that the extra modifications that you performed on the bumper now makes it completely unsellable. We are in the business of making our customers happy so if this is what you want then please reach out to us to get this resolved. At the end of the day the customer is always right and we have always gone by this standard. We apologize that you felt that the only way to grab our attention was to post on Tacoma World.

We always take opportunities like these to learn from any mistakes to continue to build our customer service into the best it can be. Again, we apologize for the issues at hand but we do want to do everything in our power to make this right.

Please give me a call and I will process your refund and arrange to get the bumper back and resolved this issue privately.

 

You know it seems very uncredible to delete people's opinions, freedom of speech you know. I understand some people can rant for ages but it's their right to do so.
I love TacomaWorld but when moderators choose one side over being in middle ground it depresses and worries me. Maybe @JimBeam can ease my confusion/worries a little bit. To clarify I mean no insult to you or anyone, just want to keep TacomaWorld fantastic

 

the water is getting clearer....continue

 

@JimBeam wasn't taking one side over the other. He was cleaning up the thread so that the two parties involved in this dispute that matter could get to the crux of the issue and not have to wade through 12 pages of pointless back-and-forth arguing and troll feed. Had everyone else just stayed out of it instead of piling more useless crap on it would not have been necessary.

I think he was rather polite about it, which is precisely one of the reasons TW is fantastic.

 

I understand and agree that it makes sense to clean things up but everyone should be cleaned not just one side of things you know

 

Seems to me like the issue at hand has been resolved whether or not it took full blast on TW but

 

Wondering if OP would get full refund or have to pay return shipping out of his own pocket.

I'd like to see some photos of the bumper removed, measurements to confirm it was a production problem. The hack job certainly didn't look professional and takes away from OP's credibility a bit but if it didn't fit, a full refund and free return shipping (if they wanted it back) would be a good resolution. OP's also out the cost of a powder coating but that's a lesson learned for not test fitting it first I guess.

 

Looks like the posts that were left on here were of people slamming the OP on his hole making skills and such and people praising the vendor......

 

It's a shame that an internet trashing has to occur before a company will attempt to resolve the issue.

 

I still find it funny how all 3 of my posts in here were deleted. Make that 4.

 

Just imagine if someone had an issue with Headstrong. I think hell would freeze over lol. Not saying anyone will, but if it did happen...

 

I had a whole diatribe typed out... But you know what? I wont split hairs with you. You know your part in this whole thing.

BUT youve got a face to save and I'll take that refund. Ive been fighting you people for two months over this, with zero results. All it took is posting my story on the internet for you to stand behind your product.

I will call you first thing in the morning for that refund.

For the hundred and something people following this, buyer beware. maybe I am lying thru my teeth, or maybe she is. Use your own judgment.

If she doesnt follow thru with the refund, Ill post back. otherwise, consider it handled.

 

Say what you want about the unnecessary posts. That 15 pages of 'bullshit' got OP a pretty quick response from AllPro.

 

glad it got resolved OP you're out the money you paid to powder coat and for shipping and whatnot but you're getting a refund after all the chaos.