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Amp Overheating

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by I Liquid I, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. Nov 18, 2011 at 4:21 PM
    #1
    I Liquid I

    I Liquid I [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    I recently installed my system as can be seen in this thread

    I have a Alpine 1000 Watt Amp powering my subs and an Alpine 300 Watt Amp powering my front and rear speakers.

    The amps are mounted beneath the seats. The sound coming out from the speakers is perfect and I have no issues turning it up. However I am noticing that if I turn it up in a song that will demand plenty from the speakers and amp, it will shut off. You can still hear some sound, but very low. When you touch the amp it is hot.

    So I am guessing that the space below the seats is just too little. Would a cooling fan help? I am thinking of this:

    http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_39031_Xscorpion-TF8.htmlLink

    I would put 1 for each sub, even though the Amp that powers my subs has not done this yet, perhaps the bigger heatsink helps it.

    Could the overheating be a result of something else? At least I think the problem is overheating... but I do not have much knowledge in this area. Connections seem fine. I am running the amp at 2 OHMS so that I can send 75W to each speaker, but the amp is made for that, so it should not be a problem. I doubt my ground is bad, but tomorrow I might make it overkill so that it cannot be a problem.

    Ground is gauge 4. Power is gauge 4. Speaker wires are gauge 16. Sub wires are gauge 12. All the connections are solid.

    Anyhow,... any help would be great.
     
  2. Nov 18, 2011 at 4:47 PM
    #2
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    What amp?? There's a few pics of the sub and box, but nothing on the amp.

    Adding a fan, IMO, is just band aiding the problem.... If your tire had a hole in it, and if you took it into a shop and had it patched, but 2 days later it was out of air, would you go back in and have it patched again?
     
  3. Nov 18, 2011 at 4:52 PM
    #3
    I Liquid I

    I Liquid I [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. You are right. I forgot I had no pics of the amp. :eek:

    Well hopefully this will help.

    This is the amp for the speakers:

    [​IMG]

    All I can say is that it is installed below the passenger seat. On top of the tube looking thing that is below the seat. I changed the carpet to black, but it is the same placement.

    As for it being a band-aid, my problem is that I do not think there is any other place in the truck I can install the amps. I cannot use the back of the rear seats and I think it would get even hotter there, it would have more space, but it would be sealed behind the seat. Only thing that comes to mind is a fan. Then again, I am only assuming that they are getting hot because of the limited space beneath the seat. Might have to take it to a shop. What a pain...
     
  4. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:11 PM
    #4
    Johns Taco

    Johns Taco I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1

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    Are you running 2gauge wire to the amps? 4gauge is not enough from the battery to your seats, too small.
     
  5. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:13 PM
    #5
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    So you're having an issue with your 4ch amp?? somehow I missed that while reading at a stop light.... on an Iphone.

    I'm gonna assume that the 4ch amp is under the pass seat - if not, this won't help - and if you can deal with it, take the pass seat out for a day or two. If it doesn't shut off, you need more airflow.

    As for putting it behind the rear seats.... plenty of people have done that and don't really think I've seen anyone complain about heat issues so far - I also haven't looked so don't quote me, but this is the first time I've seen someone complaining about heat issues on a 4ch as well.

    Also, did you consider that the amp might just have a bad circuit in it, causing it to overheat? And what about the heat vent under seats - did you seal them up? Duct tape works wonders (yes, I see that you're in PR, don't know if or why you'd have your heater on just yet, I can't imagine it being that cold there)
     
  6. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:14 PM
    #6
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    4 gauge should be PLENTY big for that 4ch amp.... hell, you could get away with running 8 gauge to it (Have done it on older model Alpine V12 amps as well)
     
  7. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:20 PM
    #7
    Johns Taco

    Johns Taco I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1

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    Your wrong. If he has a 1000w amp and a 300w amp 2gauge is the smallest wire you should go, the distance from the battery to under the seats is very far. 8gauge wire could be used for the 300w amp, that's it.
     
  8. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:27 PM
    #8
    2000GTacoma

    2000GTacoma Well-Known Member

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    i think johns taco is talking about running a single power wire then running that into a stout distribution block fusing each amp along with the power wire in between the battery and block he is correct if that is what he is thinking. 8 ga alone for that 300 watt is fine
     
  9. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:30 PM
    #9
    Johns Taco

    Johns Taco I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1

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    Right, my questin for the OP was what did he have running from the battery to the 2 amps. I am not familiar with V-power amps, but 1 amp could be robbing the power from another if they dont have enough juice for both to run at full volume. Never skimp on power wire.
     
  10. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:49 PM
    #10
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    I'm guessing that he has this for a sub amp (assuming it's an Alpine similar to the 4ch) taken straight from Alpine's website

    [​IMG]

    Another image of this on alpine's site shows 4 white ATC fuses - I believe those are 25 amp fuses

    No image of the 4ch amp with fuses exposed, but I'm guessing it's got a 20amp fuse in it (4ch * 50w ea = 200w /12v = 16.67 amp draw) for a total of 120 amps max draw before running risk of blowing fuses. At 100 amps, he can run about 10.5' before he runs short on wire size, but that's IF he's pulling 100amps continuously.... just my opinion, but I doubt that's happening.

    Yes, the chart listed below says he should be running 2awg wire.... 7 yrs installing and only once did I see one of my co-workers running wire larger than 4awg, and this guy was installing in an Accord where he was powering 2 MUCH larger (and less efficient) sub amps AND a similarly large 4ch amp in a system that cost a little over $5k just for the gear.

    Is he likely to be having wire size issues as the source of the problem... I doubt it, but would be fully willing to admit being wrong. Is it more likely that he's either got a heat dissipation problem, or even a bad amp.... those are my guesses.

    Easy fix - OP: go get a string of 8awg wire and run it from the battery to the 4ch amp - don't change anything else - and see if the amp still shuts off. If it does, please refer to a previous post.

    And if it doesn't, let TacomaWorld be my witness that I was WRONG

    Wire size source: http://www.mecp.com/downloads/Overview_MECP_Program.pdf page "37" lower right corner
     
  11. Nov 18, 2011 at 5:55 PM
    #11
    2000GTacoma

    2000GTacoma Well-Known Member

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    i wasnt disagreeing he was having a heat problem but just clarifying an above post
     
  12. Nov 18, 2011 at 6:00 PM
    #12
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    I'm only disagreeing that he needs 2awg wire.... I know he doesn't need 2 awg for a 200w 4ch amp. Maybe.... and a big maybe IMO.... he needs it for the sub amp, but until OP posts more photos, we're all shooting in the dark
     
  13. Nov 18, 2011 at 6:00 PM
    #13
    2000GTacoma

    2000GTacoma Well-Known Member

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    cant argue with that
     
  14. Nov 18, 2011 at 6:05 PM
    #14
    Johns Taco

    Johns Taco I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1

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    I am not disagreeing with any one here either, I have also been installing for 22 years {yes I am old}, I know the demands of amps and what they need. Since the OP hasn't replied we are all speculating what his problem could be, I could be wrong all this time and not know it {doubt it}. I know about power problems since I probably have the most power demanding stereo of all of Tacoma World. A pic of mine 2500w RMS.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Nov 18, 2011 at 6:29 PM
    #15
    I Liquid I

    I Liquid I [OP] Well-Known Member

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    It is night out, so I will try to get pics tomorrow.

    Ok so to address some of the comments:

    The heating ducks, which I did not know that is what they were... lol, I do not use them. I mean... it is PR, I would be crazy to use them. They are not sealed, as I cut the new carpet to fit in the OEM way, however no heat should be coming from there. Also, I cannot use the part behind the seats, I have all my tools there and sadly, tools > sound system, as this is my work truck.

    The amps are:

    *Note: If you click the name, it will bring you to the amp description at Crutchfield.

    (F300) 300 W Alpine for the front and rear speakers. It is 50W RMS if using each channel separately. I however bridged them to get the 150W RMS Alpine says is doable when bridging at 2OHMS.

    (M100) 1000 W Alpine for the two 8 Inch subs. However only one sub is installed right now, as the other is getting worked with the store because it came with problems.

    I have 4 Gauge coming from the battery, which gets split into two 4 Gauge wires to the subs. All grounds are 4 Gauge. They are grounded to seat bolts. I am probably going to redo the grounds, even though I think they are ok. However, I am most likely wrong.

    The 1000W amp is below the driver. The 300W amp is below the passenger. I did drive the truck without the passenger seat for a couple days, because I was painting the plastic parts of the seat black. Although I did not have the problem at that moment, I am still unsure if that was proof enough. I did have the stereo pretty loud as the girls wanted to listen to Pitbull at ridiculous volumes... So perhaps it really is a space issue.

    Thinking about what you all say, should I just do both things ASAP? The two things being changing the Gauge to 2 and getting the fans as well just in case?
     
  16. Nov 18, 2011 at 6:44 PM
    #16
    Johns Taco

    Johns Taco I'm not 4x4, and have an open diff. So i'm 4x1

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    Dude, 2 gauge wire will only hurt your pocketbook, not your amps. Asking a 1000w amp to run off 4 gauge from your battery + power another amp is not good. Try it, it is probably your problem, especialy since 1 sub missing keeps your stereo running strong. Please post back on what you learned.
     
  17. Nov 18, 2011 at 7:02 PM
    #17
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    Woah... there's your problem.... you can't bridge that amp down to two channels AND run it at 2ohms....

    From Alpine's Website on this 4ch amp:

    Bridged 4 Ohms: (@ 14.4V Ƈ%THD+N, 20Hz - 20kHz) 150W x 2

    Your amp is shutting down cuz you've got it running in an incompatible setup.... There's VERY few amps that can run 2ohms bridged, let alone a $200 one.

    John, care to back me up on this??
     
  18. Nov 18, 2011 at 7:13 PM
    #18
    TurboGT

    TurboGT Stirring the pot since...

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    And also....

    I will agree that in a perfect world the best setup in terms of wiring these two amps would be to run 2awg from the battery to a distribution fuse block, then running a piece of 4awg to the sub amp and a piece of 8awg to the 4ch amp.... However, people do dumb stuff when it comes to their stereo equipment, and running a single 4awg to a pair of amps of decent quality (don't get me wrong, I love these Alpine V- & X-series amps) hardly fits in this category of dumb stuff.

    @John - Seen your system build before - I like what you've done, aside from the loss of the back seat, but to each his own. I seriously wish more people had the mindset of using appropriate sized wire, but like you said, 2awg hurts the pocketbook much more than 4awg, and on top of that, for most people doing their own install, it's also more of a pain in the ass to route through the truck.


    When I get my stereo stuff going, trust me - I've got a 20ft chunk of 1/0 awg wire sitting in the garage waiting to be put to good use... Overkill for what I plan on doing... maybe, but at least I'll still have my back seat ;)
     
  19. Nov 18, 2011 at 7:16 PM
    #19
    I Liquid I

    I Liquid I [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. Amp says it works like that. Amp can be changed to 2 channels for a bridged 2OHM connection. Even asked a tech here in PR, he said it would be fine. Ill be honest, when I look up the connection in crutchfield, it comes up as a 4OHM connection, but according to what a tech here said, it is a 2OHM connection.

    This is basically the connection I have. Think of the subs in the picture as regular speakers.

    Link
     
  20. Nov 18, 2011 at 7:19 PM
    #20
    I Liquid I

    I Liquid I [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I will just buy some 0 Gauge and put that into the distribution block. What sucks is that the battery clamp I have installed will now go to waste... as it only accepts one 0 gauge and then 4 gauge and a couple of 8 gauges... :( Looked so proffesional... :bananadead:
     
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