Annoying chirping vibration noise under loaded acceleration

*sigh*

So, I figure I'll post this here, even though there's not a whole lot you guys can probably tell me at this point. I've been searching here and google for any clues, but am coming up completely short, so I figured I'd at least document my situation in case anyone else ever comes across it, or I need to look back and see what I may have forgotten down the road.

Since day one, when I went to take delivery of my 2013 AC SR5 three weeks ago, there has been a strange chirping noise; it happened during my first test drive, but then we could not reproduce it when the head tech went with me for another test drive.

Being the truck was brought in from another state for my order, I was feeling kinda cornered and figured I would lose my deposit if I walked. For how hard it was to get a Pyrite 4 Cyl 5 Spd, since the second test drive could not reproduce it, I just shrugged it off and figured I'd warranty it if the noise returned. (this was probably foolish...but...oh well, can't change things now)

Well, as I continued to drive, the truck was still making the noise as I continued to break in the engine. Any moderate (40%+ pedal) acceleration, particularly in 2nd or 3rd gear, especially under load would produce the noise. At first you hear the normal valvetrain noise, but then as the 'noise' gets louder all you hear is a tweeting/chirping vibration as something under the truck seems to hit a resonant frequency. The funny thing is that the pitch/harmonic of the noise does not change; it's pretty much a constant 'note', and only gets slightly louder during the window of RPM it happens. (which happens to be between 2300 to 3400 or so, give or take) The ride and acceleration is smooth and vibration/shudder free. It's just the strange noise, nothing else. It sounds a whole lot like a chirping bearing to me, but usually a failing bearing is constant, not intermittent like this is. And it 'could' be a metal vibration chirp I suppose; it's just so hard to tell. It comes from under the truck somewhere so far as I can tell, and from the drivers position, it sounds like it's under the front passenger seat or footwell.

Anyhow, I brought it in promptly to the dealer, who was pleasant and willing to look it over again, especially since they could not escape the fact that the salesman had heard it during the test drive. Sure enough, when the powertrain expert of 7 years rode with me, I was able to produce it pretty much on command during that test drive. (thank the lord Mr. Murphy stayed away)

He was pretty stumped, thinking it might be a heat shield on the exhaust, since the noise was not gear or rpm dependent, as I described above. At first he thought it was also coming from under the front passenger area, but towards the end of the test drive, he thought it might actually be more rearward. When we got back he put it on the lift, but could not reproduce the noise at all. (basically because it needs to be accelerating under load really to happen)

At that point, they deferred to calling in the Toyota Regional Field Tech, as they figured they're going to need approval to change out parts and the like anyhow.

In the interim, I mounted the FJ wheels with larger Cooper tires. That seemed to diminish the noise a tiny bit; not that it made it go away, but that it is just a bit harder to get it to occur now. Before with the factory steel wheels and 245's, you could do it on command in 2nd or 3rd gear even on mild inclines with 35% pedal or more. With the new 265's, it's a hit or miss on whether I can get the noise to occur, and it almost always requires a decent incline/load to trigger it.

Fast forward to today; I took the afternoon off to head to the dealer once again, and met the regional field tech; nice guy, pleasant, polite and professional. I will give all of the Toyota points of contact I've dealt with so far lots of credit for that.

Mr. Murphy stayed away again, (thankfully) and even with the change to 265's, I was able to more than a few times make the noise occur. It helped that the original powertrain tech that started my case at the previous visit rode with us, crammed in the back seats. (poor guy) He identified the noise on the first acceleration pull without me even pointing it out with a 'there it is again...seems to be easier to hear from back here' After a bunch more pulls, it was clear to the field tech that the noise was real. (albeit hard to pinpoint or identify)

We then drove an identical truck (except Magnetic Gray paint) to baseline whether any other trucks made the noise. Nope, not a tiny bit. And I honestly, honestly tried to reproduce it. (I drove for both test drives)

So, at this point the field tech is going to do research. I guess that means looking for TSBs, contacting his colleagues, etc. Then contact the dealership with any advisements for resolution. I have no idea where that may go, and I read over the PA Lemon laws very carefully; I don't know if I have recourse unless I can prove a safety or value depreciation issue. It's just kind of annoying and depressing. Other than this one issue (that might be potentially big if it's a transmission or transfer case issue) I love the truck in all other regards...

If you made it this far, thanks for reading my venting. I'll update this thread if I get any more information, or if I can find a way to record the noise this week.

E.

 

So, a minor update.

In driving around during the rest of the week, I noticed that the truck needed to come up to temperature pretty well before I could produce the noise. Cold driveline just couldn't get it to happen. (even with motor well warmed up)

After about 35 minutes of driving, is when I can start occassionally making the noise appear.

Since I was semi-conscious of the situation on the way home from work one day, I decided to attempt to record it:

http://youtu.be/xUM736puPv8

(Sorry about the bizarre orientation; I didn't realize the phone rotated the camera since I was driving and holding it blindly pointed at the passenger wheel well)

If you listen close, there are two noise during the acceleration pulls; first is what I attribute to a valvetrain clatter. My guess is that is normal, albeit it seems a bit louder than I would think, going on my memory of driving the other identically built truck at the dealership on Tuesday. Second is the actual metallic chirping. It occurs more towards the end of the video, starting around the pulls at the 0:35 mark or so, and positively there at the 0:40 pull.

I wish there was better audio, but it's the best I had to work with at the time. hope someone out there has good speakers/headphones and knows what that might be.

E.

 

Just a guess but I'd lube the driveshaft u-joints and check the center bearing for play and make sure the rear leaf springs u-bolts are tightened to spec. Maybe change the rear diff lube for shits and giggles, too.

 

I checked everything for play, and found none. I would assume that the dealership made sure the U joints were lubed when it was on the lift either time so far.

I did notice one other test case that I forgot to mention; I did a few pulls up a hardpacked dirt hill in 4WD, and I could not make the noise happen. Switching back and forth between 4H and 2H during that total hill climb showed that the noise only seems to happen in 2WD. I will try again over the next day or two, but I think I'm pretty sure I can not make the noise occur in 4WD.

FWIW, it sounds so much like a rattling metallic bearing cage to me. I'm wondering if it's something in the transfer case as this point... how to get the dealership to admit to it though...

I read in another thread about vibes or shakes where a member got a GoPro just to fasten to their frame and video evidence the problem. I wonder if that would help me here if I figured something like that out...

 

Maybe it's a supercharger I kid I kid... When you say you checked the DS for play, did you unbolt it from one end at least to see if there was play?

 

No, just pushed around as I didn't want to get too into it at that moment.

I also hesitate to wrench on anything this early into the vehicle's life; in some ways I feel like it should be Toyota's job to troubleshoot and resolve this....

I have another appointment for a door rattle on Monday AM, and I'm going to mention the 4WD thing to them. I want to see if they're going to do anything else at this point, as it seems like I'm getting close to their 'we have no clue where it's coming from and we aren't willing to spend time swapping parts out to shotgun diagnose it...'

(which, frankly, stinks, because that seems like a cop out attitude to dodge the issue.... and if this thing finally rears it's head at 65k miles 5.5 years from now, I'm going to be rather pissed off when they try to make me pay for a new transfer case or something....)

E.

 

Check your trans gear oil!!!!! My truck had 4000 miles on it and it started making a loud whine like a old munci 4 speed. Took it to the dealer and it turns out the trans was never filled from the factory and smoked some bearings. I gotta say 4000 is pretty far on a dry trans!!

 

lol ouch, bet that turned em red!

to the op, gotta ask, bear with me, your not listening to am radio are you?

more seriously, I think I heard what your talking about, sounds very metallic. if they can verify all fluid levels, there isn't much you can expect them to do till it becomes more obvious. it wont wait till warranty is up to suddenly become catastrophic if it is serious.

back to the am radio thing, if your listening to it, try fm and see if the problem goes away.

 

AM radio? Is that something like an 8 track?

No, I don't listen to radio at all, AM or FM. I run the bluetooth occasionally and pull digital audio from my synced iPhone on occasion, but if the cab isn't essentially silent, whatever is running pretty much drowns out the noise. (windows cracked, ventilation fan on higher than 'LO', radio on, etc.)

I will make it a sticking point on Monday when it's in that they check the fluid levels in all four driveline components, and grease the U joints at least.

Will update tomorrow after the appointment as I'll likely know on the drive home if there's any change. (I drive over 45 minutes to get to this dealer)

 

lol only asking because my grandmas car picks up all sorts of interference produced by the car and sends it through the speakers. the last time I rode with her It was driving me nuts as I couldn't find the source of this whining noise dependent on rpm. shes immune to it and I finally went against all motor-noise diagnosing abilities and cranked the volume knob. yep, motor noise through speakers lol

 

So, a minor update.

Dealership very quickly resolved my door rattle issue. According to the invoice, 'tightened door striker bolts to 40 ft lbs' solved the rattle. (something about the weld nuts for the door striker being the culprit...) I was pretty happy about how that all worked out.

I then had a discussion with the service manager about my 4wd discovery, and what some of you here had indicated through discussions.

I asked about the greasing of U joints, but he indicated that should not be an issue, as we both agreed that if there was a Driveshaft issue, the ride and acceleration would not be so smooth and vibration free. I didn't feel like I should push it since it was a Monday morning and he shoe-horned me in for the rattle fix as is; his bays were all full as I glanced inside. He stressed that as well documented as this issue has been, if anything goes, Toyota will certainly 'follow through to resolution'. (In some way, I kind of want the situation to truly reveal itself as-is, even if that means a component letting go on me and leaving me stranded at some point; at least that way a band-aid fix doesn't end up concealing the damage already done for thousands of miles until I'm way out of warranty.)

I then asked if I could drive the Magnetic Gray truck again, just so I could get a baseline comparison on sounds, as my suspicion that the 'valvetrain clatter' I'm hearing in my truck is louder than what I recall during the Gray truck testdrive. Bottom line, the Gray truck makes a slight valvetrain clatter also, but in my truck the sound coming from directly under the front seats is MUCH more noticeable in volume; I no longer consider it normal, based on my comparison driving the Gray truck. If I had to put words to the sound, it has a sort of 'burbling under water sewing machine' sound, as best as me and the Service Manager could come up with, adjective-wise. It can be heard in my video above if you listen carefully for it; it's definitely metallic in nature, sounds like lots of moving metal parts tapping or scraping. (this is why I thought it was just normal valvetrain noise before, but as I said, it's certainly too loud on my truck to qualify as that now)

FWIW, after the very long drive to work, I noticed both noises pretty regularly, (the valvetrain clatter as well as the occasional chirp under load) and as I approached the final streets for my workplace where I climb multiple hills, I got some interesting rotating scuffing noise coming from under the front seat area for once; these noises are definitely rotational in nature, and tied to vehicle speed. As I sped up, the scuffing noise turned into what I previously thought was the valvetrain noise, and eventually became the infamous metallic chirp. I think the extended 60+ minute duration of the drive heated up the driveline thoroughly enough that the noises became far more noticeable this time; most of my drives don't last that long in the past, but I think I will see about making a point of extending my local driving sessions to try to get the driveline to that temperature more consistently and see what effect it has on the noises.

So, I'll keep driving on for now, and hopefully the techs will contact me, or continued driving will wear something that was damaged/out of spec from day one to the point where it fails and becomes blatantly obvious.

If I had to roll the dice and wager, I'd say it's my transfer case though, given everything I know. It will be interesting to look back on this down the road and see if I was right.

 

Another followup;

After hearing the scuffing noise last week, I sent off an email to the service manager, and he promptly made an appointment for this morning to drop off the truck, with a loaner available.

All through the week last week, I wasn't quite able to reproduce the scuffing, but the other noises were apparent, and dare I say easier and easier to reproduce now, once the vehicle is thoroughly warmed up. I've gotten it to happen in 1st gear more than a few times now, and I can do it on demand right around 28 mph in 2nd gear on any kind of incline.

A few more tests shows I still can't produce the metallic chirp while the truck is in 4H; in fact, it's hard to be sure, but I think the other associated noises (burbling under water sewing machine) are actually very subdued when in 4H. So I very confident it's a drivetrain thing at this point, and believe that it's the Transfer Case or something forward of it. (Front Driveshaft, front Differential)

The noises, especially the metallic chirping, is very localized to under the seat area so far as I can tell as I hear it more and more.

Of course, when I get up super early this morning to drive the near hour to get to the dealership and arrive at 8 AM open, I am unfortunately told the master powertrain tech that Toyota requires the dealership to do the work on the vehicle, had to call off work today. And being backlogged for the rest of the week, he didn't even want to accept the vehicle as a drop off.

So now I have to go back, yet again, on Tuesday of next week, after having wasted a bunch of gas on a now third trip to the dealership and an unresolved issue.

I have the patience of many men typically, but this is starting to wear me thin....

I did jokingly (somewhat) make a statement about whether Toyota would reimburse me for all the fuel I was wasting on these trips; the service manager said I should mention that as a point at the next visit and he would see what he could do, to paraphrase. I don't hold out any realistic expectation, but it would be a decent confidence builder if Toyota came back with a $50 gas card or something to cover the fuel costs I've burned, not counting all the time wasted and time off from work I've taken because of these appointments.

Here's to hoping that next week is more productive on this matter...

E.

 

my 2010 DCLB does the same thing.. however i have an auto. it almost sounds like the motor is knocking.. it occurs on slow accelerations with slight throttle pressure..

 

Today's update.

Got up ass early again, drove to dealership. Proceeded to fill out paperwork for loaner; they are letting me drive a brand new Matrix, has only 7 miles on the ODO. Nice gesture. Not that great a car, but nice gesture at least.

My truck was assigned a new service tech. This tech asked if I was available to take a test drive. I knew I had to be at work, but felt it important to demonstrate the noises to him personally, so I agreed. I had JUST made the truck make the noise as I was getting off the interstate, literally not 2 mintues prior to arriving at the dealer, so I figured this would be easy peasy like the other two times.

Not so much. *sigh* He drove first, and couldn't get the noise to come out. After a few minutes of driving, we switched places to see if I could bring about the noise easier. Of course? Nope. What a pita. We literally drive around for over half an hour on varying roads, trying to get it to come about, but no luck.

All the while, based on my verbal description, he's already pigeon-holing the noise and is telling me it's likely detonation/knock, that it can in fact produce metallic chirping noises, etc etc. (I'm very, very leary at this point, as none of the other people seemed this... 'absolute' about it, all the others being very open minded about what it could be, and mind you, they all actually had HEARD the noise, whereas this tech has not even heard it yet, try as I might to get it to come about, and with quite some certainty 'knew' what it most likely was...)

Finally, FINALLY, on the last turn, coming up the street to the dealership after we had semi-conceded the noise wasn't coming out today, it made the noise. Not as loud as it has in the past, but certainly was there. He of course, immediately 'confirmed' his suspicions that it was likely knock, and maybe a hint of exhaust resonance/vibration for that metallic chirp.

We pulled into the dealership, with him saying it would only take 10-15 minutes on the lift to lube the driveshafts, check some things, and change the fluids. That I didn't even need to really leave it.

FRAK that noise; This is the FOURTH trip I have made to the dealership; the service manager had already set up the loaner. I was intent on leaving the truck so they could not say they did not have the truck available to diagnose or fix the issue.

I made it pretty clear (I think) to the service manager that after driving over 288 miles to date (I calculated it because I wanted to know how much I actually have wasted on this endeavor, and in case Toyota might want to make that gas card compensation a reality for me) to the dealership for repeated non-productive trips on an unresolved issue, that I wanted this truck fixed, and the noise gone for good before I would take it back again.

A couple of things I thought of only after I had left in the loaner car:

- If it's knock/detonation, shouldn't the ECU have a record of off the charts knock sensor activity if it's making a noise that I can literally hear as a metallic chirping? (and consequently, wouldn't that throw a CEL?)

- How is it that I was able to easily make the noise in 2H at times, and during the same exact hill climb, switch it into 4H and not be able to make the noise, but then switch back to 2H at the top of the hill and the noise comes back immediately... If it's detonation related, why would 4H make a difference?

Had I not been in more of a rush to get to work (I was over an hour late, again... second time because of this nonsense) I might have thought of them while the tech was standing there professing repeatedly that it was detonation and nothing I should be concerned about, etc etc. Call me kooky, but I got a very different vibe from this tech compared to the other people who have assisted in this effort; I can't pin it down with words really, but my gut feeling was either that he is full of crap and more than willing to write off the issue in a way that can't be easily validated, or he is mechanically brilliant and just horrible at convincing people of it.

FWIW, the regional corporate tech is supposed to be in the area again in the next week, and the service manager indicated that while he was in that he'd look at the truck again. Not sure what he'll be able to do, but having another tech higher up in the chain can't be bad at this point I suppose.

Here's to hoping I get a call in the next day or so with real news that they found something, instead of the usual, 'we can't reproduce it on the lift...' because frankly, while I can understand that position from a technical position, that feels like they are brushing me off from a service resolution position.

I made a comment to my coworker at lunch though, that I think sums this up nicely; "You want me to believe this is a normal noise that can happen given the right operating parameters? Fine, prove it. Show me another Tacoma that does it, and I will leave you all alone..."

Somehow, I doubt they will take that bet.

E.

 

I don't get anything remotely knock like. I get repetitive 'twisp'ing noises, if you can hear them in the video link I posted above.

At some point, in some accelerations, the noise turns into a metallic chirping noise for a few seconds until I've accelerated past that RPM/Speed range.

Check the video above and see if you can hear it, and then let me know if it sounds the same as your noises.

E.

 

My 2003 started to do this a couple of weeks ago. Similar symptoms: chirp, truck has to be driven for almost an hour, hear it in 2nd and 3rd gears, sounds like it is coming from passenger side under the truck, the chirp frequency is independent of speed, rpms, braking, in neutral/gear.

I've already checked brake pads and bolts. I'm going to change some fluids (although I have fairly fresh Amsoil). I'm curious about my exhaust at this point.

 

I think I know what you're talking about. I've had very similar noises coming from my truck as well. It almost sounds like the fan up front knocking something when under load... Which makes absolutely no sense because we have E-fans which are encased in a box, not an open fan as on my last truck (Ford F-150 2008 FX4) - which by the way, the lift I installed on it had broken a mount and the wind hitting the fan guard from the bottom (or your hand if you're parked) would very easily press against the fan and make the slight clanking noises you're talking about. That's how I figured it was the fan on this one. At higher RPMs it completely goes away. I have no clue what in the world it could be, but it really bothers me a lot. I have never mentioned it to the dealership though. Maybe I should do that. Regardless, good luck with your truck bro

 

I had almost forgotten about this thread.

Short story; after that last visit, the master tech (the one that did not give me a good vibe) basically emphatically stated that this was a detonation thing. (Which is utter BS) The Service Manager knew I wasn't liking that answer, and basically said until there is a more 'notable' cause for concern, Toyota couldn't really diagnose it with any certainty or make any repairs. In short, I feel like they blew me off.

He gave me the same 'I guarantee, but can't guarantee in writing' that things will be fine, and if/when it presents itself, Toyota will 'do what's right' because this has been documented so well since the beginning.

I just don't know anymore. I have continued to drive it and since I am not romping on the gas pedal anymore to save on fuel costs, I don't notice the noise as much. But as soon as I've been driving for more than an hour, if I get on it at all in stop and go traffic, the noise is easy peasy to reproduce anymore.

I'll update this in a few months if anything changes... I'll say this one thing; my original position of driving this truck into the ground after 10+ years of ownership is slowly starting to change. After reading all the rust cancer issues, the minor stupidity like the rear leafs, the pilot shaft/throwout bearing on the 6 spd manuals, and my own personal experience, as much as I enjoy the truck right now, I don't really know that I'll be willing to keep it past the 6 year mark, which is when things seem to turn downhill for many users, beginning with the rust issues.

E.

 

MY 13` Tacoma M Tras is doing this exact thing. Did anyone figure out what causes this?