Another Kickass Audio Build

Right, I already thought of that.. I'm going to stuff the AC ducts w/ FILL. The same stuff I used for the subwoofer box. so, I will have a minibox so to speak, another reason why I wanted to try this location!

I looked at the domes, you really need a tweet with those puppies! I'm over forty, so not sure how high of frequency I really need (another reason to test the wideband).. thx.

 

Hey Gary, I planned to go into detail discussion of speakers, but just got busy..

Basically, I want a simple two way system. I was planning to test two different speakers, so that's why u guys are confused. I've elected to use the Vifa

Zapco
2channel --> vifa (dash)
2channel --> Scanspeaks (doors)
2channel (Bridged) --> Sundown SD-2 woofer

There!, that helps.

Hopefully, simplicity will pay off. I was seriously considering adding a mono amp to the system to add more power to the front stage, but that got complicated really fast. bigger gauge wiring, (maybe) battery upgrade, and no room! I already have a 150 amp breaker in this system; I'm at the turning point that adding more equipment will really increase cost.

 

I'm going to try stock HU this year, Gary had good success with it, going to make a custom RCA interconnect that will attach to the harness. Should post pics of that in a couple of weeks.

 

Well I think I have a better picture of what you are doing, but the VIFA speakers and the dash location still don't make any sense to me. You have an amp that is basically designed to be run in an "active" three way system in conjunction with a mono amp for the sub. In fact with 4 channels at 50W and 2 channels at 100W it is about perfect for a tweeter/mid/midbase combo with a 500W mono for the sub. If a two-way active system is more to your liking (it is mine) the amp was not built for that, but it can be adapted to make for a nice tweeter/midbase/Sub if you bridge channels 5 and 6. I mean it only gives you 50W for you midbase which is not great but certainly something that is workable, and 50W for a tweeter will give you a lot of flexibility, especially with an amp as clean as the Zapco. But what you are suggesting in this design is not a two way system at all. It is basically two sets of full range speakers one low and one right up in your face. I am not following the why's here. The DSP will be basically worthless because the only thing your gonna do with it is send out full range signals. The idea behind running components is that you can adjust your speakers and cross-overs to match the environment and get an output that is flat across the whole spectrum. This wont let you do that.

I am not trying to jump on what you are doing, just trying to keep you from being disappointed by the outcome. A two way system with a good mid driver in the door and solid tweeter in the dash will sound way better than what you got going on here. As far as the simplicity, should you choose to add a mono amp you won't need the bigger gauge wire or battery upgrade. I am at 1600W and running all stock.

 

most speakers made for the auto environment prefer an IB setup. Sealed it may cause a response not desired

 

No, that's not what I'm doing.. See below.

Zapco
2channel --> vifa (dash) ==> 50 watts per ==> xcross ~300 hz and up
2channel --> Scanspeaks (doors) ==> 50 watts per ==> xcross ~60 hz to ~300 Hz
2channel (Bridged) --> Sundown SD-2 woofer ==> 350 watts ==> up to 60 Hz

Agreed, 50 watts to doors maybe low (already spotted that); but it depends on how a person listens to music. This system will not be shattering db records. lol If HU or power is lacking , it will be upgraded later, but I don't see why it is not worth trying and (hopefully) working very well.

The scanspeaks are high sensitivity speakers which will help.

The cross over point between midbass and mid is expected to be much lower; around ~300 Hz to start. The reason, bring sound stage higher.. That's why going active is so important because I don't know where I'll end up at..

I think the only debate in this system is the speaker location for the wideband (or recommending adding a tweeter). I think I got specs covered, but if I am missing something, please let me know!!

 

I don't believe I agree with that statement.. Car audio provides speakers with QTS values across the whole spectrum..

 

This is true, but "Most" not all. Mid bass drivers more specifically i should have also added

 

Admittedly, the QTS for the scanspeak are lower than I wanted (it was a compromise with other specs).. Higher QTS values are desired for IB.. So, I will put some effort into sealing the doors. I know, it won't come close to being sealed.. thx

 

I would think that if you're already in the dash, it really shouldn't be too hard to trace those outer ducts back to where they tee off from the inner vents, and seal off the connection there... result in my mind would be that more air flows out of the inner vents... I dunno

 

I think that is what I am trying to tell you. You are missing something. Specifically about the last third of the frequency spectrum. I mean I'm not gonna tell you what to do or not do, but my suspicion is that this thing will sound absolutely horrible. What would the point be of crossing the midbass at 300HZ? A range of 60Hz-300hz? It might as well not even be there at all. That is you power speaker, your work horse. You should be band passing it from around 100hz - 4500hz, and with at least double the power you are planning on giving it. The vifa is just flat out the wrong choice all together. It's a full range speaker and the thing with full range speakers is that they are equal opportunity speakers in that they handle all frequencies equally bad. For your upper ranges to sound right you are going to need a speaker specifically designed for the frequencies you are trying to produce which would be a tweeter. You have the power to run a decent set of tweeters, and a DSP to make them do almost anything you want them too. So I am not following the concept of using this set of full range.

I am really not trying to knock what you are doing, I am actually trying to help and I think you are on the wrong path. For example when you talk about how power requirements depend on how a "person listens to music" that is a major misconception. Power requirements are a function of the driver. For a driver to work best it has a certain amount of power it needs. Speakers can be both over and under powered, and a good system starts with the power you have, and then drivers are picked that best matches that power. It's not about producing db's it's about running the speaker in it's sweet spot so to speak. So when I say 50W for a midbass driver is low I say that because it is hard to find a "good" midbase driver with it's power sweet spot in that range. You can find drivers that to run that low, (i.e. factory speakers) but they are not very good. If I were to give you my two cents I would really suggest getting all this "sound stage" nonsense out of your head, and build a system using good components and good power. All this axis and stage garbage sounds like nice technical terms to throw around but in reality the guys who do this day in and day out don't really give it too much credence. I've been doing this for years, most of which professionally, and I give this stuff very little thought when I am designing a system. I mean in this case the difference from the dash to the door is not even two feet.

Well take that as you will. It's not about the destination it's about the journey. Look forward to seeing it finished.

 

Doing the speakers in the vent holes is a neat idea. But something you might not be thinking of...when it gets really cold in the winters here in Montana, I need my dash vents sometimes to defog/defrost the side windows, otherwise I can't see out. Not sure where you live, but if it gets down to 0 degrees F, you might end up missing those vents.

 

It wont matter if you stuff it with fill. The entire idea of poly fill is that air can move through it. So unless you intend to melt it all down into a solid plastic disc to then seal off the AC pipe it won't really work for that. There will still be positive pressure on the back of the cone.

The mids I posted are indeed just that...mids. Although they play quite high it's not intended for tweeter use. That being said, if you're only doing a 2way active system, maybe what you really need is a tweeter in that position. You could find a tweeter that you could mount to that vent opening and still have air pass around the circumference of the driver. This would mean the vent is still active and the tweeter, which has a sealed back, wont be affected by the backpressure.

 

Dash mount installs using widebands (not tweeters) are typically crossed at 300 to 400 Hz.. Thanks for your input Gary.

 

You know, a sealed mid was a very close second place. I checked the dome mids on a few models, and if they carried high frequency better, I would have tried that first because it could allow air flow to pass.. As I recall , they sound good off axis as well..

If I can place a button tweet next to them? hmm

 

These Dayton's won't fit! Love the specs! Any other dome's you can think of??

PS Kinda of take that back.. they will fit, but I would have to permanently modify the plastic trim face.. might be doable if replacement cost is not too much..

 

Dude I am sorry but you just don't have a clue what you are doing. Crossing at 300Hz and up is for all practical purposes a full range speaker. I'll drop out of the conversation though and leave you to it. Good Luck

 

Here's an update: I decided that I don't want to plug the AC ducts anymore and compromise cabin temperature , so that eliminates the 3" in the system. There's better options for dash/ A pillar installs with smaller diameter speakers. I think I'm going that route.

 

Hopefully the negative feedback didn't sway your decision. I really like the widebander idea and I wish I could build up enough courage to some in my pillars. I've read a lot of success stories of guys who pulled them off crossing as low as 300 Hz. A midrange crossed that low is not uncommon - some folks cross their mids lower. It's all about try to get the "meat" of the music up off your lower door panel and bringing them up to your ear level.

Can you put it in your stock tweeter location?

 

You get it! ;-)

No, a trip to Phoenix convinced me that I better make sure the AC vents are running on all four cylinders.. The a pillars and dash are kinda "scrunched", a 3" is kinda tight on dash (IMHO).. Not like an accord, etc..