Any truth to this article?

Ever seen a jeep or other type of Rock Crawler emit smoke out the exhaust after being involved in a roll over ?????? . That is oil draining past the rings back into the combustion chamber

 

Truly...

 

From the horse’s mouth “severe offroad terrain”. They hit a 45 degree incline at 2:10. Fellas and gals.....I digress.....go drive your Tacomas offroad and enjoy it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=65vbsUXPWck

 

These Toyota videos are actually pretty gnarly. I admit, sliding down that dirt slope at 0:30, I may have shit a tiny bit.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MjFyU1S2g

 

People on here <500 posts and their first Tacoma- “these trucks can only handle fire roads I would know I’m an off roader now”

Please.

 

I love my gen 3, but damn...

 

Hmm. I've owned six Toyota trucks over 30 years and forded rivers, crawled over boulders, climbed many mountains, etc. and no problems. Yes the 2nd gens smoked on steep hills.

 

So in the end, what happened to this dude’s truck and how does he prevent it from happening again?

 

So I can probably clarify on the making him pay then covering bit. In the US, the dealership is an agent and the warranty is through Toyota, not the dealer. Toyota only reimburses dealers for work performed that is (1) actually within the terms of the warranty, and (2) has an outcome of a completed repair.

If I pulled a pan and/or head to validate a problem, I got paid an hour diagnostic and whatever the repair was - be it a new part install like a lifter or replacing a short block. I did not get paid for the diagnostic tear down, only the completed repair.

In the case where it’s found the damage was not warranty, Toyota paid nothing which meant I was paid nothing (or at least, the dealer wasn’t and I had to get prior manager/foreman approval if I wanted to be) no matter how much effort I put into it, unless the customer approved it after the fact. As you can imagine, many would decline and have the vehicle towed away to be repaired for less at an independent.

As a significant number of engine failures are from user error, getting a prior customer approval for the job is extremely common practice. If the issue turns out to be warranty, Toyota pays. If it turns out the customer is at fault, it ensures the tech and dealership are compensated for their time. A lot of the “Dealership initially charged me $4k” talk is from people who do not understand this dynamic. They agreed to pay if it was their fault, they didn’t pay and then get reimbursed.

The reason Toyota doesn’t even provide guidance is because a guideline isn’t perfect. You can easily hydrolock a Jeep engine in 10” of water just like you can starve an engine of oil at less than the maximum yaw angle. There’s simply too many variables that impact these numbers and by not defining them, Toyota doesn’t have to deal with people arguing that the spec is set in stone and applicable to their given scenario that there would be no way to reproduce or validate.

It’s 100% a CYA measure and as stupid as people are, I really can’t blame them.

 

He took the truck to the dealer , they didn't find the problem and 100 miles later it blew the motor . He has a good argument with them and I think they should pay for it seeing as how he took it to them before it blew .

 

Let's be clear here - these vehicles obviously have an issue on a certain % incline....as do others....Jeeps, other Toyotas, Ranger Rovers, Land Rovers....

Yes they did.

But to some cement heads here, that will be overlooked (as well as the FJ Cruisers smoking on steep hills ) because everyone is convinced that the 4.0 is a truck motor.

I use trucks for work. Big trucks, small trucks...trucks. We work them....we work the piss out of them. I've seen a lot of truck motors in my 32 years of working.....I've put a lot of miles on them...and yes Deidre, that includes the oh so mighty 4.0 lol TRUCK motor....we have one sitting in our garage right now. We have a second one parked in front of our house.

Many of the most famous and most celebrated truck motors got their starts or had their roots as passenger car motors...but don't tell that to the 4.0 owner who's is convinced that because it was used only in light (extremely light) truck and SUV applications that it is somehow special. It was not torquey. It was not powerful. It was not efficient. It smoked on a steep enough incline if left there idling for an extended period of time.

In all aspects it was fair to middling. Yet some people feel it was the Holy Grail of truck engines. Here's a pat on the head for all of you...you're so precious and special. You win at life. Congratulations.

I'm not calling the author of the linked website a liar. Nope. I have no doubt that his truck smoked and ultimately grenaded. Heck, in the end Toyota bought him a new engine. My point is that the "phenomenon" happens to almost any 4x4 or better yet - anything with an engine - if the conditions are right. It happens to current wranglers, it happens to older wranglers with the 4.0. It happens to FJ cruisers, it happens to first and second gen Tacomas and it happens to older Toyota pick ups. It happens to the fucking rovers and land cruisers with Diesel engines. In that, the author was uninformed, or misinformed or whatever other label you want to put on it to think they are immune.

What I'm amazed at is that it generated so much rage and indignation on a forum habituated by a flock of people who claim to know a lot about these things. FWIW, while Jeep and Rover publish fording depth limits, they do not publish easily accessible vertical slope limits.

Having said that, it is known in any industry that uses machinery or vehicles, that idling or running said vehicles at inclines of greater than 20 degrees is not good for the motor and not recommended. When we get our tech talks on new graders, dozers, scrapers, etc, it includes the rep pointing out not to do so to avoid engine damage. Those are Detroit diesels, cummins, Navistar's, Cats, you know.....shit designed to work on actual slopes.

Now everyone can go back to thinking that this is a third gen only issue. They can continue thinking that the 4.0s were specially designed to not have this problem. They can go back to whatever uninformed conclusion they derived from the OP's link. But in the end, do yourselves a favor and realize that you run this risk no matter what fucking engine you pilot...a third gen Lexus engine, a second gen wittle pickup twuck motor, or anything in between.

 

I'm not reading all that, I only use 4wd in snow anyway in the sport

 

Looks like an advertisement for jeep. Look at the forum and see what these crazy fucks are doing with there Tacomas. Very capable!

 

Uh, gotta be true....

 

You can see how high the intake inlet in the RF fender well is and the height of the box.

It is a good idea not to submerge those object in water or put a heavy constant spray of water from spin on wheels onto the intake while the engine is reving.

 

I have sympathy for bad things happening to others even when it’s their fault. What bothers me most about this story is the “we had a baby so I quit my job to go on an epic trip” beginning. I’m slowly turning into an old curmudgeon but I can’t countenance that level of irresponsibility.

 

Reply from our CAT dealer:

Per the manufacturer for that model and as a general rule standard on/off highway engines are safe to 30 degrees in any direction. Steeper applications require a special deep sump and should be specified upon ordering or renting. Continuous operation at over 30 degrees is always pushing it. Customers have used our equipment for paving inclines at up to a 36 degree slope without sump modifications but I'm not sure if the paver guys had hooked up special low pressure gauges/alarms or if their mechanics overfilled on oil.

The only way to reliably measure slope is with proper instrumentation. 30 degrees can look a lot steeper than it really is. We were called out to help spec a paver rental for a street claimed to be 28 degrees. It was actually 18 degrees. It is very common to overrate a slope.

If you have a concern, take video of the clinometer during several phases of the operation. Pan out for reference. I'll send you the application guidelines later today.

 

1) The problem has never been the smoking. Why is that being brought up again? The problem is bricking an engine. The smoking may or may not be related. We have NO proof either way at this point, but either way, smoking is at best a symptom not a problem itself. Lots of vehicles smoke when at incline for a duration, but are the engines fine? That's the issue.
2) You CANNOT say that this is absolutely a PCV issue. Might be, but it appears that, at least sometimes, the rear plugs only are oiled when low pressure/knocking is seen. If that is true, it appears to be valve guide seals, but again we have NO proof. If trucks had 100k on them, then I would not be surprised. 3k is a differnet story.
3) Cars and trucks have had the same engine blocks forever. Yes, carbs/injectors, pistons, cams, etc can be different to allow different torque bands. But it is the same basic power plant. Look at the Ford 2.3 EB that is used in the Ranger, Explorer, Mustang, Focus, and happenes to be a Mazda engine. Or the 2.7 from the F150 and Focus, Edge, and Fusion.
4) Cars absolutely need to account for oil pooling/return. Somewhat for angles, but also for lateral forces. The Subaru EJ20/25 engines in the WRX/STI had issues at higher G turns with oil starvation burning cylinders
5) I agree that published incline or fording depth would be nice for our info and during the buying process, but if you hydro-lock you engine due to water crossings, it won't covered if it was 2". 12" of water at 40mph vs controlled entry is different.
6) We really need to test this to come to conclusions. If driving steadily up a medium grade incline does, indeed, brick a percentage of engines, then it is a design problem that needs addressing. If it is driver stupidity, then it wouldn't matter what they were driving.
7) Toyota should not decline warranty for "off roading" unless they can actually demonstrate abuse. Their own publications (don't forget to go to the website to see them crawling over rocks in the Crawl section of Off Road Capabilities):

Tacoma TRD Pro
Forge your own path and seek out tougher roads. With Tacoma TRD Pro, no trail is left unchallenged.

Off-Road Capability
Go off the grid confidently with available features like Multi-terrain Select and Crawl Control (CRAWL).

Crawl Control is designed for driving difficult terrain at low speeds