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AR-15 BS Thread

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by BulletToothTony, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. Jan 10, 2019 at 2:56 PM
    velillen

    velillen Well-Known Member

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    Have a source showing its now measure with a collapsed brace? Since all Im seeing is still the ATF's method of measuring which is muzzle (excluding removable muzzle devices) to the rear most portion as was called out by their Tech Branch (and has been how many brace manufcatures have measured and submitted ot the ATF).....granted that was like 2 years ago for the last one I cared to look at. This doesnt include the folding braces which I know are under some weirdness last i heard. ATF wanting to measure them folded.

    Just like having sources for future use when learning of rule changes :)
     
  2. Jan 10, 2019 at 3:15 PM
    Max713

    Max713 Well-Known Member

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    Just another grey area that is likely never to have a clear answer for...
    I would argue though, that you could easily replace the brace with an "end plate" that would hold the bolt in place. I'm only assuming this, I don't have an MP5 but there are plenty that are sold without a brace at all.

    Exactly... the problem is that a lot of these rules are just "opinions" or opinion letters, that can be changed at any given point. The whole thing is a mess. The NFA is such a flawed entity its ridiculous.

    I'll have to google around for it tonight. I'm at work at the moment, work computers really limit what I can get in to.
    I was shown the information a while back, can't remember if it was within an opinion letter or within the actual definition written by the ATF. I believe it came to light after the ATF "busted" a gun shop for "illegal AOW's" because they were putting vert grips on CZ Scorpions that measured over 26" when the brace was extended but when folded was under 26". I think at that point an opinion letter came out detailing how to correctly measure a "pistol".
    Google "ATF measuring pistols folded" or "ATF measure AR pistol". You should be able to find it, I'll look around tonight.
     
  3. Jan 10, 2019 at 3:29 PM
    velillen

    velillen Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say it's flawed....rather it just needs to be updated to today's technology. Things were a ton simplier when it was written. It's just never been updated and instead just had to many opinion letters being issued.

    Though I do think the whole thing should be abolished

    That was an instance for side folding braces specifically and not for traditional m4 style ones. Also it was directed at specific guns a gun shop sold which had the side folding braces and a vertical foregrip. Atf ruled to measure with the brace folded which meant it was under 26" and an AOW not a "firearm". Think it had issue with CT laws too?

    But like anything it's the ATF so your guess is as good as mine :)
     
  4. Jan 10, 2019 at 3:36 PM
    Max713

    Max713 Well-Known Member

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    Abolished would be fantastic haha.

    I agree that that instance was specific to side folding braces on a specific firearm, but I believe in that letter they also expanded to include the expectation for measuring AR type pistols as well, or at least you could easily ascertain it from the language used in the letter.

    So much of what the ATF says can be interpreted in multiple ways... hence the many grey areas. I supposed I'd rather a "grey area" than a definite no though.
    Still going to have to find that letter tonight.
     
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  5. Jan 10, 2019 at 6:54 PM
    velillen

    velillen Well-Known Member

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    The more I look into the Gun Shop in question the more i see they were just foolish. Showing pictures and videos of them removing the straps from their braces. Which is actually specifically called out in the ATF's "shouldering a brace" reversal letter.



    As for the "how to measure" thing....this is the ATF letter Im basing things on. Which again excludes side folding braces witht he whole previously mentioned thing (or more thats more gray area). Im only linking to page 3 though but it has the info needed. Note the letter is all about AR pistols.
    https://i.imgur.com/iIRM3Zn.jpg
     
  6. Jan 11, 2019 at 2:09 AM
    magnetic11

    magnetic11 Well-Known Member

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    I’d give it to you that a really good brace is expensive, but no more than what the Tax Stamp would be and I only paid $75 for mine, that’s as much as a DD stock that I own. VFG are a personal choice, I like an AFG, personaly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
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  7. Jan 12, 2019 at 3:52 AM
    JustJon

    JustJon Active Member

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    Bingo.. I have a registered SBR and a few AR pistols. The SBR is hands down the winner for me. But, I do like the pistols for ease of transport and crossing state lines yada yada.

    My fear is someone high up changes their mind on AR pistols and gone they are. Feinstein's proposed ban of 2019 targets AR pistols as well as all the scary black "assault rifles". I know it wont pass but you never know..
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  8. Jan 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM
    magnetic11

    magnetic11 Well-Known Member

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    Everything is up on the chopping block, these days. But I would say the ones that are registered with the ATF, are already on watched listed, as where non registered guns are not. JMO.
     
  9. Jan 13, 2019 at 9:55 AM
    golfindia

    golfindia Well-Known Member

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    Remember that the NFA also includes machine guns. A majority of which are owned as "investments" by the super wealthy and the well connected. So I doubt NFA items will be messed with any time soon.
     
  10. Jan 15, 2019 at 9:13 AM
    MedlinAround

    MedlinAround Failure is the result of letting setbacks stop you

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    Ordered a Vortex Crossfire scope for the AR. What's a decent mount for the price. Seen a few on Amazon anywhere from $20 to nearly $100+ and so on. As long as it holds the scope sturdy through some torture by the look of some of the reviews what's the benefit in $100+ mount for the same objective?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  11. Jan 15, 2019 at 4:23 PM
    Tlook

    Tlook Well-Known Member

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    How accurate do you wanna be?
     
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  12. Jan 15, 2019 at 5:31 PM
    Adventurer_Alex

    Adventurer_Alex Generic mall crawler

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    Ive had great luck with Burris rings. Have a set of the pepr rings that have been awesome
     
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  13. Jan 15, 2019 at 6:05 PM
    Thompson486

    Thompson486 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Those are solid rings for the price.
    That or the Leupold IMS rings for ARs are good for a decent price and a little less bulky than the burris rings.
     
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  14. Jan 16, 2019 at 7:39 AM
    Max713

    Max713 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Not all mounts are created equal. I run ADM mounts on all my AR's.
     
  15. Jan 16, 2019 at 7:51 AM
    MedlinAround

    MedlinAround Failure is the result of letting setbacks stop you

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    I understand that. $100-$150 for a piece of metal that's screwed down in my mind couldn't be too much more than a $40 one as long as the screws aren't going to strip or over tighten when holding and it's not just poorly made. Most of them seem to have good reviews.
     
  16. Jan 16, 2019 at 7:55 AM
    golfindia

    golfindia Well-Known Member

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    No real advantage putting a $300 scope in a $200 mount. warne and talley have some decent ones for the money.

    Schmidt Bender glass? Yeah, I'd spring for Badger ordinance
     
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  17. Jan 16, 2019 at 2:03 PM
    Tlook

    Tlook Well-Known Member

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    The reviews are only as good as the persons knowledge reviewing them. This coming from a guy with a $90 mount on his AR.

    Do you have a torque wrench for your base? If you over torque your optic you’ll have a hell of a time keeping zero. Keep in mind the extra price usually comes with more precision and higher QC. Along with that comes a good warranty and customer service. If you’re not planning on going past 100 yards and shooting from a rest then by all means go for the $40 mount.
     
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  18. Jan 16, 2019 at 2:04 PM
    Tlook

    Tlook Well-Known Member

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    Psh. Barska trumps all. :rofl:
     
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  19. Jan 16, 2019 at 7:00 PM
    azshooter40

    azshooter40 Well-Known Member

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    Good advice!! Have a torque wrench and torque your rings/mount to spec.
     
  20. Jan 16, 2019 at 7:12 PM
    LMarshall73

    LMarshall73 Well-Known Member

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    The big difference between quality and bargain mounts hits home with quick detach solutions. The higher dollar mounts (LaRue, ADM, Bobro, etc) are manufactured to tighter tolerances and are going to have less (if any) zero shift. Cheaper mounts can have a considerable shift in zero when removed and remounted. Some also have a low tolerance for recoil. I had a scope pair of no-name rings on my Mosin M44 that disintegrated after about 10 rounds. I replaced them with Millett rings and they did fine (even though the reticle broke loose inside the scope a little while later)...

    As others have said, a torque wrench is good. Just be sure to get the right scale (i.e. inch pounds, not inch ounces or foot pounds).
     
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