AR-15 BS Thread

That is, unless you're doing an SBR from the start...

 

What optic is that I like it!

 

Vortex Viper PST 1x4x24.

 

Good Choice!!!



I have the sparc, viper, and crossfire

 

So I went to Cabela's today to see the Leupold and Burris side by side. They look to be almost identical in terms of how far they will push the scope forward, and the width between the rings.

The Leupold felt noticeably lighter.
The Leupold looked cleaner without the rails on top.
I pretty sure the Leupold is made in America, whereas I know the Burris is made in China.
The Burris cost less.

I'm pretty sure with all that being said, I've talked myself into the Leupold. However, the salesman tried to talk me out of either, and said that I should skip the new mount and get a riser instead. His logic to that is that it will make the charging handle easier to reach, and that my logic of the new mount is flawed. He insisted that those mounts are to push the scope back, not forward. I'm not a big fan of adding risers, not to mention, the riser he was trying to sell me felt heavier than a roll of quarters.

In short, was the salesman in Cabela's way off base, or am I confused?

 

Leupold sources a lot of their stuff from the pacific rim, but does also assemble a lot in the US. Dunno where the mounts are made.

The Burris PEPR used to come with a second set of smooth top-halves if you don't want the rails. Not sure if they still come with both.

Don't go to Cabela's for black rifle advice. A cantilever mount sets the scope forward, for proper eye relief especially when shooting a short stock. Unless you're adding a 50mm obj-belled scope and are shooting a fixed A2 stock, a cantilever mount like the Leupy, Burris PEPR, LaRue, American Defense (my choice) will serve you better and give you more options than a riser.

 

I've heard that one would have to weld on the flash hider to a 14.5" barrel for states like California, but is that standard across the board (Federal)? I don't ever intend to live in a state like that, but I also don't want to have to weld on the barrel if I don't have to. So if it is standard, I'll buy a 16" barrel.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I'd stick with a cantilever style mount when trying to put a conventional scope on a AR15. Whatever your budget will allow of course. You can skimp on a lot of things on a rifle, but the aiming system is pretty important.

 

So in short, I was right to begin with .

Thank you for clarifying. I hate when people try to act like you are completely wrong about something and act like you are stupid for asking. I've been reading a lot of forums where people suggest the American Defense. I may have to give them a look, but I'm leaning toward the Leupold for now.

Yeah, I spent a little more than my wife wanted me to on the scope. I figured adding a riser added more points of failure for the sight to get knocked out of alignment. I want to keep it simple and accurate. You never know when your target might be just a little further away than you anticipate.


This is why I love TacomaWorld!

 

Yes that is a federal law not a state law.

 

Thanks for that; +1. I guess I'm going to get a 16" barrel then.

 

Just one a DPMS Oracle on Friday at a Ducks Unlimited fundraiser. Anyone have any good info for me? I have no idea what I'm doing with these new-fangled guns haha. I know what I'm doing with guns, but AR's seem like they have a lot of stuff going on with them ha

 

A 14.5" barrel with a pinned MD just isn't worth it over a 16 in my eyes. If it was a legal SBR and the MD didn't need to be pinned than maybe but if you're doing the paperwork may as well go 12.5. I do recommend you get a mid length gas on that barrel though. Pretty common now and will minimize carrier wear as well as felt recoil.

 

A couple points...

Make sure you read the National Firearms Act and get a good lawyer if you go 14.5" and do not register it as a SBR. I have several SBR's and also several pinned and welded 14.5"'s as well. One of the best AR builders (Wes Grant) will tell you 14.5" and 12.5" is the sweet spot for AR's.

For a custom build (if you're doing it) you need to consider head space and bolt to barrel fit, if you don't know what that means...pay someone to do it.

I would skip the Adams Arm conversion kit and buy a LWRCI Piston rifle if you're set on a piston gun...if not run DI. I have a lot of AR's...run them for a lot of reasons...plinking isn't one of them...and I don't own a piston gun. They're heavy and offer no major improvement in function over a well built and maintained DI rifle...that negates the weight factor...just my opinion. The HK416 may be the one exception...but, again...I like light guns and a stock HK416 isn't the lightest option out there.

If you're stepping up to Noveske barrels...I would recommend a VLTOR lower and upper...top tier and their quality is awesome. I would also recommend running VLTOR's new A5 buffer system...it's smooth.

Geissele Triggers are the best in my opinion and I run the SDEnhanced on all my AR's.

The Nightforce 1-4 s one of the best compact scopes on the market for short to mid distance (600 and in) engagements.

- Mark

 

I have an M1A, that thing would be like 12lbs before you added anything to it. You should check out the SCAR 17s thats what is replacing the M14 for the special forces. 8lbs unloaded, but it comes with a $3000.00 price tag.

 

I'm guessing you got the Oracle 5.56? Just take it to the range and get familiar with it. I'm not sure why, but the manual recommends cleaning the barrel after every round for the first 25 rounds, and then after every 10 until you get 100 rounds down range.

I'm still learning about the AR rifle, but i feel this is a good one to learn on.

 

Selling my Troy FF 9" rail

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/bu...-fs-troy-free-float-rail-9-a.html#post6014269

 

I just read the National Firearms Act on the ATF website, thanks for pointing me in this direction. After further review, I don't want to deal with the registration, notification of sale or assembly / disassembly of a SBR. I have never liked the concept of the government knowing that I own guns - hypocritical I know because I have a concealed carry license, have legally bought five handguns from firearms dealers, will eventually fill out the paper work to get a suppressor, and am active duty Army (infantry, probably a good guess I would own guns). I will get a 16" barrel and feel fine knowing that I'm following the law, and can still switch out a flash suppressor / muzzle break when I want to.

I am curious to do a little more research about this "sweet" spot you are referring to. I feel like it could be telling to compare bullet velocities and energy levels at the muzzle, 50, 100, 250, and 500 yards for a 12.5", 14.5" and 16" barrel. It would also be good to look at the in-flight stability of bullet through the different lengths (assuming the same manufacture, rifling, etc.).

I am planning to build this myself and will definitely look into this and understand it before I put it together. I am a degreed Mechanical Engineer, so I feel like I should be able to figure it out.

I have done some research into this, and with my experience (in the field and in the class room) I think the key word in your statement is 'maintained' - "...no major improvement in function over a well built and maintained DI rifle...". It is my opinion that the inherent benefit of a piston design is that the weapon is more likely to function properly without proper maintenance. I am not building my rifle for "plinking" either; this is going to be a battle rifle that I would trust my life to, and in a SHTF scenario (or if I deploy with this rifle or a similar rifle I'll build - later in my Army career) I want to know it is going to work even if I can't clean and lube it like I would under normal conditions. I have shot enough poorly maintained/cleaned M16's /M4's (issued to us) to know that a dirty weapon will jam eventually. When we conduct STX lanes we typically use blanks [with the blank firing adapters]. While a whole lot filthier than regular ammunition, the blanks simulate simply firing more of the regular ammunition. I can't even go a whole day firing blanks before I am doing SPORTS at least once per lane. Like I said, not a 1:1 comparison with live ammunition, but even if it was a 10:1 ratio or 50:1 ratio of live:blank ammunition it would result in the same outcome, just more bullets fired until we arrived at a weapon that was unreliable. I have also shot a lot of piston guns (AK's and AR's) and have noticed a significant difference in reliability after 200+ rounds have been fired.

Obviously my build (and probably all of yours) will be/are much higher quality than the standard issue M16 that's been around since Vietnam; so I agree with your caveat about "well built" being more reliable, but I still don't see them as more reliable than an equally well built piston system. In theory (don't cringe, I'm an engineer, this is how we think ) a piston system should always be more reliable by design (keeping the carbon away from critical moving parts), albeit definitely heavier.

I guess all this to say I want the most reliable rifle I can build and I am willing to take the weight penalty for it.

I set my sights on the Adam's Arms piston conversion kit because I can build the AR using MILSPEC and other high quality parts like the Noveske barrels - if I'm correct, the LWRCI is proprietary and I can't build one from various manufactured parts. For monetary reasons I wanted to stretch the purchasing of the rifle out (build vs. buy), so this route worked. Any particular reason why you would recommend against Adam's Arms?

I am using a VLTOR upper, but I didn't want to use the VLTOR lower because they use proprietary/non-standard parts. I looked into the Noveske lowers and they are pretty compatible with the VLTOR uppers (built Noveske AR's come with a MUR-1 upper). I also think the quality of the Noveske Gen II lowers compliment the quality of the VLTOR uppers - tight tolerances, continuous/solid trigger guard and a flared magazine opening.

I already have a buffer system, but it's just a standard carbine one. I will look into the VLTOR buffer system.

I love the feel of the Geissele trigger so far, albeit I've only released the hammer with it (weapon not firing yet) - it is so smooth.

I am thinking I will put a EOTech 553 on with the potential for a 3X magnifier behind it. I really like the EOTech for CQB, and with the magnifier I should be good out to 300 or so yards. I will eventually build a scoped rifle for longer distances, so I'm not too worried about the making the longer shots with this rifle. I will look into the Nightforce scopes though, I just don't have any experience with them.


Thanks for all of the help, points to consider, and dialogue. This is why I love this forum - I'm always learning so much and generally engaging with people that are just trying to be helpful; I really appreciate it.

 

Yup I believe so, I think you might be able to shoot .223 and 5.56 through it? I didn't get a chance to look at it too closely, I couldn't keep my head on straight, it was too exciting haha. Thanks for the info though, I'll keep that in mind

 

if the barrel says 5.56 on it you can shoot .223.