AR-15 BS Thread

Not to get in an argument with you but, I can assure you some of your "facts" above are incorrect and /or are based on interesting logic.

A) Noveske does in fact turn a special contour for MSTN and they do...if you'd like to argue about that with Wes and Noveske, please feel free to call them. Noveske usually charges Wes an additional $50 for that on top of their normal prices, and Wes gets his barrels directly from Noveske.

B) In regards to custom "AR Builders" there aren't too many builders out there that will got through 50+ bolts to find the best fit...and quite frankly, there aren't too many individuals that can afford to buy that many to just get the right fit.

C) Everyone of my AR's built by Wes is sub-MOA...if you'd like to come shoot one, please sign up for one of our classes and I'll let you run one of my rifles. Wes has a general rule, if it's not sub-MOA it doesn't pass his test. If you don't trust me take Taran Butler's word for it, I believe he has several comments that you can browse on the MSTN Facebook page.

D) 14.5" is actually a great length for 3-gun, it's what I shoot and it works like a champ. Light, fast, and great recoil with a mid-length gas system and the VLTOR A5 buffer system, you should try it. Also, I am short...so, that helps...as you said...to each their own.

E) I fundamentally disagree with you...that's like saying there are a lot of BMW mechanics out there and the only differentiating factor is who their friends are. That's just absolute buffoonery...there are only two BMW mechanics in the United States that I let touch my S38B35 engine in my M5. There are a ton of AR builders out there...true, but not all build top-notch rifles.

F) I am not sure of Wes every being difficult, all the customers of his that I know think he has some of the best customer service period. I've never had an issue with him.

G) I have built many of my own and I am a pretty damn good AR builder...but, again...I don't have the time to test fit 50+ bolts to get the best fit. I don't even have 50+ bolts. I like to let people who are experts at their profession...do their thing and I will gladly pay for that service.

Like I said, I don't want to argue with you...we can agree to disagree on everything above. I respect your opinion and perhaps, that opinion would change if you had a MSTN upper or had the chance to shoot one for an extended period of time.

Good Shooting!

- Mark

 

Rev -

As a follow-up, please let me know how many "home builders" take a group of 50 bolts, sort them by head-spacing...and then begin fitting those to specific barrels (per the customers order) for the absolute best fit? That may be one reason that MSTN rifles are sub-MOA. Also, how many builders out there that you know have fifty proof round tested, MP-inspected, Ionbond Diamondblack coated bolts for their builds? Details separate those that are good at their profession from those that are great. Like you said, there is no "magic" associated with building an AR but, with everything else in life paying absolute attention to even the smallest details...separates the good from the great. If you're happy with average...more power to you...I am not, I like and am willing to pay for great. Wes even Ionbond Diamonblack coats the pins in his rifles...does it make a difference, yeah it does especially when mated with a Geissele Super Dynamic trigger. - Mark

 

fjfar80 calm down dude...lol jeez

The difference is you can get to the 90 percentile for X.
To get that last 10% usually costs 3X.

 

Don't worry...I am not fired up...internet threads never work me up.

Like you said, 90% may be fine for some folks...but, I like to get to the .10% percentile and yes, it does cost more. I've never had a MSTN upper build come in under $2k but, in my opinion the quality I get is a fair trade-off.

- Mark

 

absolutely, cars are the same thing. for the LS1 you can get 410rwhp from stock(320rwhp) for $2000 but 450rwhp will cost $5000.

 

Yes sir, I think this forum is a fine example of that...some folks will stick a body lift on or a low budget lift and be happy and say "it's good enough". Others will spend $10k on a custom suspension and say "I've got a great suspension". Then a select few will spend $20k on a custom suspension and they'll know they've got the best suspension available for their intended use. Some will spend $500 on UCA's and some will spend $1k on Icon billet UCA's...and on and on.

The simple fact is that the pursuit of the finest or best for an intended purpose is usually limited or constrained only by the budget your willing to expend.

I just find it interesting when folks try to compare apples to oranges and say they're the same or just as good.

It's simply not true and like a Tacoma suspension, taking out a good rifle and a great rifle to the range, into the field, or into a competition and working it hard will separate the two very quickly.

- Mark

 

I'm not going to get into how foolish parts matching AR bolts is other than to say it's snake oil. Headspacing the .223 round is more of a safety than accuracy thing. The real measurement you should be making is the Leade to determine the jump. After you shoot 100 rounds, all that matching is for naught. The gas rings will affect that bolt closure as well as the cam pin. It's really a crap system for trying to build a high accuracy rifle.

There's a lot more that goes into an engine than an AR, and the dimensions of the AR parts are pretty tightly controlled, whereas the parts in an engine can be tweaked for various things. In a BMW there's a lot to be made up with the computer as well. (I Added a JB4 to my N54 TT and instantly gained 80HP)

I have yet to find the computer inside the AR.

Again, glad you've found yourself a builder you like. Just remember that there's nothing really special about what he's doing.

 

Well, unless you're hand loading and adjusting bullet seating depth to hit the lands...the leade measurement is for not.

I'm not going to disagree with you about the AR being a challenging platform for accuracy...but, if you take the time to get the tolerances of all the various parts down as small as possible, you're inherently increasing the accuracy of the system...slop is never good.

Before we sold my wife's '08 335i we had her N54B30 pretty highly tuned. Kellener ECU, Berk downpipes, AFE intake, BB exhaust...the N54 is a very easy platform to tune.

Rev, like I said...I don't want to argue with you but when you're making statements like "snake oil" and how "foolish" something may be...you're kind of saying that your opinion is the only one that counts...and last time I checked there is no definitive authority on the AR platform. On a serious note, if you are the definitive authority I'd like to pick your brain and shoot one of your rifles.

Speaking of accuracy...I don't think you will find many people that do not think the LaRue OBR is a highly accurate AR platform rifle. We shoot those in our long-range precision classes and they constantly perform at MOA or better...some of them perform better than precision bolt guns.

To each their own...I will respect your opinions and I'll continue to hold my own about what makes a good AR builder and what counts when trying to squeeze as much accuracy out of the AR system.

Thanks.

- Mark

 

I always had wanted a methanol injection setup on an N54 with the upsized turbos, but never got that far with my 1'er. I was doing around 395 at the rear wheels with the downpipes, exhaust, and the JB tune...

 

i got a cobb tune on my 08 335i on an aggressive map and that thing is insane. I'm also running meth and rob beck turbos and its just crazy power

 

Back to AR's...we'll need to start a "Tacoma owner's and their BMW tuning" thread...

- Mark

 

mmmmmm.......smells like.......communism

 

Any you are looking to part with? What are specs/brand on the second from the top

 

I really can't decide if I like the 1-4x PST or the 2.5-10x on this gun. It gets reconfigured about once a week. Better shooting with the higher power, but the 1-4x is fast and would be good for coyotes or as a truck gun. I have other social guns so this one is more of a plinker/hunter.

 

I've had 500 rounds on back order since December. Still waiting...

 

No, not going to sell.

As for spec what I remember, would need to pull it out...
Yankee hill upper,YH Low Pro gas block, YH sights, Samson 10" evo tube, 10.5 300 blackout 5R Stoner barrel, KIES Blast Master Linear Compensator, DD BCG, can't remember the CH but I use a Badger Tactical Charging Handle Latch GEN 2.

 

I have a 300 blackout rifle for sale in Gunbroker One of you guys should buy it. Matter of factly, If you mention Tacoma World, I'll give you free shipping.

 

Link?

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339138935

Some reason it didn't paste earlier...

 

Very nice gun