AR-15 BS Thread

^Sounds like a great build.^

 

I did all the heavy research and ended up with a Stag 2T. It isn't as popular and isn't marketed as heavy as the Bushy or RR but I felt the quality was as good if not better. It's a very good bang for the buck with the floating barrel. I added an Eotech 512 sight and I couldn't be happier.

 

Congrats.

 

I just sent them an email asking if I could be a summer intern......its always worth a try lol

 

Several things I have learned from my years in arms dealing... There are about 5 people that make AR parts and everyone from Colt to Olympic Arms buys from them and the only real difference is fit and finish. I can take almost every gas impingement AR and swap parts around and it will work just fine. There are a few out there like Knights that use proprietary parts that are VERY expensive to replace and are not interchangeable with other ARs. I would start off with a cheaper AR and add nicer accessories than buying a Knights Armament, JP Enterprises, or other high end rifle if youre just getting in to ARs. The AR is the adult version of logos or erector sets and sense they ban was lifted everyone and their brother now make aftermarket parts. Magpul makes GREAT stuff like their B.A.D. lever, sights, stocks, rail panels, mags, grips, Iphone cases, etc. You can’t go wrong with them. Daniel Defense and Knights makes great rails. Surefire for flash lights. I'm not a fan of EOTech, I've had several problems with different sights from them and they did not stand behind their product where as Aimpoint and Trijicon always have. Once you build one you will want another one. I've build a AR because I have a spare rear sight and nothing to put it on. Good luck with the build and have fun with it!

I'm only asking $1650 for the Knights...
Also Stag is a sister company of Colt

 

I never had any issues with my ACR, Ive got about 2k through it. I sent it in on the recall, got it back with two free Pmags, and its rocking like no other.

Josh's BS opinion is this (as its always been) the best gun is the one you have in your hands at the time you need it. If you want proven reliability and performance, look at Larue, Noveske, Colt (if you can find them), LWRC, POF, or Barrett.
All are pretty steep in price though. You can work wonders on a stock setup by:
1: Get a decent barrel (1:7 or 1:9) and a good BCG & buffer/spring.
2: Stick with a mil-spec trigger,
3: Get quality Irons, MagPul,
4: REALLY evaluate how you're going to use your platform and get a decent optic if it suits you. (standards are AIMPoint, EOTech, Trijicon)
5: Compensators are your friend.
6: Buy good Magaznes (Pmags, I've got 15k through one, and 22k through another...no issues at all)

Lookt at going to a basic carbine course or see if you can walk a three gun course and put the rifle through its paces.

 

Good info, Josh.

Ive been looking at carbine courses in the Dallas area. Some day Ill take one. It just gets expensive when you add in the cost of 1,000 rounds @ around 300 bucks.

 

I hear you kevin, I was fortunate enought to go through Mid-south, Blackwater, and our own combat support course when I was in the Navy as well as managing some of our combat ranges (CQC, MOUT,) and I was just lamenting on the fact that I cant check out ammo and weapons anymore and shoot to my hearts content.
I picked up the Magpul Carbine 1 DVD's, theres some good nformation in there. PM your address and I'll get them in the mail to you.

 

I think there is a lot of bad, or misleading, information here.

Yes, there are very few companies that own forges big enough to produce AR lower and upper receiver forgings. But how, and who, machines them out, still matters. As does the quality of the barrel steel installed, the testing done to said barrel, the quality of the finish, the thickness of the chrome lining, the twist rate, and on and on and on. Saying "one or two people make all the parts for all the companies" is horribly misleading.

Taking a substandard gun and bolting sub-standard (or even high quality) parts onto it does not make a quality gun. I will take a bone stock Colt over a Stag or an Olympic that's been dragged through the Crapco catalog all day long. Hell, I'll take a bone stock Colt over a Stag with top quality parts added to it. You can't make up for a substandard barrel and/or bolt with a fancy handguard system.

and I'd really like to hear how Stag is a "sister company" of Colt, and what bearing that has on anything if it is true. DPMS and Bushmaster are "sister companies" and (at least prior to the shutdown of the plant) I'd rather have a BM than a DPMS (although I'd rather not have a BM at all).

I think most of the above is an example of people having a small piece of information and (mis)extrapolating that out to incorrect conclusions. I know people that have been selling guns for decades that couldn't tell you if a bolt was HPT or not, or why it matters.

 

Great post Rob.

 

The post above about the major companies that actually MAKE the receivers is some of the most valuable information thats been posted on the subject. I found this information years ago and saved it. I called some manufactures and confirmed it too! Just becuase its more expensive does not mean its better. I favor Mega and Olympic. I havent found any better in price or quality! I'd love to see one of the ABC mfg's come anywhere near it. yes, I own both.

ar-15 dot com is about the last place I look to find reliable information. I guess it depends on how you like to spend your money. I mean, why would you pay 40 or 50 bucks for that "big name" scope riser when YHM mills that exact peice of aluminum for 15 bucks? Those sorts of things are EVERYWHERE! Granted, it took me a shit ton of reading to discover them.

Thats the advantage to building AR's vs. buying them. Those 4000 dollar rifles that we all drool over...well, trust me when I say you can very VERY easily build that rifle (and better) for halfish and sometimes less. Also, you can build it EXACTLY how you want it! Paying a grand or more for a basic shooter from some of these manufacturers is madness. drop 600 bucks and build a better rifle! The chart that is above in this thread is a great place to start.

 

Who actually forged he lower has about as much to do with anything as who made the bedliner in your Tacoma. No, scratch that, it has LESS to do with anything.

Why in earth are people so obsssed with who made a lower? Who does the final machining matters a LOT more and even then these days its almost irrelevant.

If YOU can't tell the difference between YHM and Larue, Olympic and Colt, then that's your failing not a failing of those that understand what they are getting when they pY for the better quality guns. Ignorance is bliss.

 

No, you cant build an AR for half the amount that has the same specs and quality.



Build that for half the price. I now have a T1 and Aimpoint 3X magnifier with Larue mounts and a Surefire Scout light on it.

LWRC with enhanced bolt
1/7 CMV barrel
Magpul CTR
Magpul MIAD
Troy BUIS
Geissele Hi Speed DMR Trigger
Aimpoint T1
Aimpoint 3X
Surefire Scout
Advanced Armament SPR-M4
Daniel Defense sling mount

I have $4000 in those parts... I have another $1000 in mags, tax stamps, Larue/Harris Bipod, Sling, iShot SERT carry case with accessory pouches, various foregrips, rail covers, and misc mounts.

Show me the equivalent rifle for $2000.

 

You have a point, to a degree. Your expense in that rifle is all in the goodies. Thats a damn nice rifle, dont get me wrong. The foundation of that rifle is still a forged lower and a mass-production barrel. Can you scrimp on high end accessories like Larue, aimpoint, and AAC? Absolutely not. I bet they dinged you close to what I paid for this receiver set. Which is of higher quality?

Its all in the receiver and the barrel. The rest of an AR is nothing but lego's. a shitty barrel or an upper with crappy machining wont shoot any straighter with a US Optics or Nightforce on it. Would you agree that you can generally build that "high end" bushy, armalite, dpms or rock river with better quality parts for close to the same money?

haha you're rifle is like some of these long travel racing trucks on here. Most of use cant do that, and these guys arent cutting any corners.

 

PSA upper is great, shot 200 rounds with it, 100 5.56 and 100 .223 with no probs and great hits. Get one if you can.

 

This post is utter nonsense.

"mass produced barrel"?

and I am no fan of piston guns, but if the owner perceives a benefit then you can't simply discard that the way you're doing.

If you think that machining of a lower or upper, and any old barrel, make one rifle different from another then by all means enjoy your bliss, but that's all it is, bliss born of ignorance. Like so many who buy sub-standard items it's clear that you've chosen to simply warp reality to your own bad choices rather than face the fact that there is such a thing as better, and better costs money.

There are ways to save for those that know what they are looking for, and that know shit from brown bread, such as sourcing parts individually, buying quality used parts, etc. but ultimately if you want "good" you're going to pay more. If you want "good enough", well then...

 

hey Rob, do you have any experience with the ACR or SCAR? I've run most tyepes and makes of AR platforms and have a MK12 SPR and my ACR. Just curious if you've run one and what your opinion is.

 

I have a whopping 300 rounds on a SCAR. I have a whopping zero rounds through an ACR. I have seen several SCARs at classes, our drills nights, and our matches (I believe two of our shooters own, and have shot, SCARs at our local events). I have never seen an ACR at any shooting event I've attended.

My impression of the SCAR was that the rail was too short to put my hand where I wanted, I found the reciprocating charging handle to be disconcerting, and the recoil impulse was a bit odd. None of these are game-enders as there are now rail extenders available and I'm sure I'd get used to the other two.

My impression of the ACR is that it's the gun I really want to love. Especially now with the introduction of the 300 BLK round that only requires a barrel change. My problem with it is that it is too heavy for what it is, and does not come in configurations I would want. I also think the reliability of them as a whole is suspect so far. As someone else pointed out to me, I think the fact that even the Magpul Dynamics guys don't run them is rather telling.

My issue with both guns is more theoretical, and that is the issue of proprietary parts. With the amount, and kind, of shooting I do this is a big deal to me. Generally speaking I'm going to have all my own spares anyway, and if Bushmaster and FN were readily producing spare parts kits I could carry my own spares for these guns as well. But that day when I forget my parts bin, and need something from another shooter or another gun, I'll be SOL because nobody else will have one.

Then there's the issue of longevity. Just because I can get parts now, doesn't mean I'll be able to get them in 5 years when the world moves on to another platform du juor. As an example of this, go try to find parts for an HK93, or even worse a Daewoo!

For the record, these concerns and others are exactly my reason for not jumping on the piston AR bandwagon. Well, that and not being able to figure out what the piston gun, SCAR, or ACR, are going to do for me that my DI guns don't.

There are two DI guns out right now that IMHO represent the pinnacle of DI design today. One is the KAC SR15-E3 (which, incidentally, suffers a bit from the proprietary part issue) and the other is the Next Generation Arms X7. I have ~1200 rounds through an SR15 (and wrote about the experience for SWAT Magazine several years ago) and currently have an NGA in the safe that I have ~300 rounds on and am trying to get more. Many people (as evidenced by posts in this thread) will discount both of these guys as being "overpriced" but for the discerning buyer I don't think you can do much better than these two. What they offer is incremental improvement that only someone knowledgeable and with the ability required to appreciate them can really.... well appreciate, but there are quantifiable benefits for those that know enough how to find them and make use of them.

 

Thanks for the input. I have some issues with KAC, mainly from a performance standpoint that I've seen as well as some contracting stuff they wanted with the military. I have no experiance with NGA. I got to do the T&E on the MK0 SCAR when I was on the team and we had several failures with th platform that FN went back and fixed. We wound up going with the HK416/417 as a replacement for our MK18s.

I agree that spares are an issue. I've called BM and remington several times to see if I can get spare bolt faces, firing pins and springs. I've never really thought about the Magpul Dynamics guys not running them, but thats a great point. I still trust the rifle, but there are some things I am wary of. my current setup us a basic model with an aftermarket rail on the bottom and a Millett DMS 1x4.

I havent shot at a match with it, but I have done our battle drills with it and its met my expatations. Its still a bit long for my taste, and I am still waiting on the 10.5 barrels to have a close in setup but it'll work for now. I am 99% that my next build will be a good mid-length AR for my girl.