Archery Talk

Still have some left! One big factor for me getting back into bows was the extended season here in VA. Now that ive had a sesaon w/ the bow I have gained so much respect for thecsport and the discipline required to be a good bowman.
Lots of work needed to step up my game for the future!
But well worth the effort in my opinion.

 

I know out here I know of at least 4 hunters in my age bracket, @LocoLocal is one, but i dont know of very many that are younger, it is sad that there arent enough younger hunters with as much access to land, and it is getting much harder to come by, especially since the trend around us is turning to have a million $ house on 1/4 acre in a nice neighborhood and not worry about the lack of woods or nature because they have no need. And tje next gen grows up not knowing anything about the skills of hunting.

 

So...........the 3-5" of snow turned into rain. Rain, rain, rain..... As if we didn't have enough last year. No 'yote hunting, no scouting new ground today.

Few random thoughts....

In the early 2000's Gary Alt, head of the deer mgmt program in PA instituted herd reduction and antler point restrictions. We were sold that herd reduction was necessary and the carrot dangled before us was point restrictions and the promise of bigger buck. Additional doe tags were offered and the herd was hammered statewide. Were their areas with too many deer? Yes. But because there were too many deer in the suburbs of Philly, the herd was decimated in other parts of the state. We hunted (key word "hunted") the ridge and valley central part of the state. Agricultural crops in the valleys, mast on the hardwood ridges. There were no browse lines or signs of over population, but still, they basically doubled the amount of doe tags. The amish would show up in buses and put on 30, 40, 50 man drives, strip mining the woods. By 2006 deer numbers had drastically dropped. I mean pre-herd reduction, my BIL and I would go up for a week during archery. We would average seeing 6 or 7 on a morning hunt and the same in the evening. So, for 6 days of hunting, we might have 50-60 deer sightings, including some decent buck. In 2006, we were seeing maybe 10 deer a week between the two of us. As much as I love camp and the mountains, it was getting difficult to justify all the time, prepping, hanging stands, scouting in late winter.....

So, the last week of archery in 2006, I took advantage that my wife's employer offered. She worked in a retirement community and employees and spouses were permitted to bowhunt. Property had about 500 acres of woods, in various size lots, with the largest about 200 acres. Did some quick scouting and found two locations. The third time I hunted the one spot I killed killed a decent 7 pointer. It was my first time hunting undisturbed, unpressured deer. Saw four or five different buck in the three times I was out, along with a decent amount of doe. As I wrote in my log, "THIS is what bowhunting is." Killed three buck and three doe in the four years I was able to hunt there. Best part, 10 minutes from home. From leaving to strapping on my release was 20 minutes. In 2010, my wife left there, and I was left looking for another place to hunt. I made a few trips to my old haunts in the mountains, with only a few deer sightings for my effort. My BIL mentioned that he might be able to get me a permit on the lease he hunted. $300 for access to 865 acres. I had sworn and declared I would never pay for access. After a few "scouting" trips with the BIL I decided to bite the bullet and do it. Have not regretted it at all. Permit is now $600. Typically during archery season there are maybe 6 or 8 dedicated guys that are out. With most days only seeing 2 or 3 other trucks. It's 20 minutes from home and as I mentioned before I drive thru it on the way to and from work. So for me and my son, it's worth it. There is really no public ground close by, that is worth hunting. The few game lands are a zoo, both on weekends and weekdays. There is decent to great public land to the north and west of me, but it's a 3 hour drive. So I'll pay for my little slice of heaven.

As far as herd reduction and antler point restrictions, the buck quality HAS improved. Gone are the days of seeing 30-40 doe in a morning, hoping the last one was a spindly spike. However for a first time hunter in the 70's seeing that many deer on a snowy first morning of rifle season, THAT was heaven. I do know that the herd is increasing in the areas I used to hunt with some really nice buck coming out if that area. But as long as the amish can get away with what they do, I'll avoid it.

So for me, leasing is a bitter pill to swallow, but the alternative is even more bitter. I do fear that $$ is going to eventually kill participation. $1600 bows, $300 sights, $200 rests..... No you don't need to spend that kind of coin, but the perception is that it's getting to expensive to attract new hunters. I work with several guys that have shown an interest, but are turned off by the $$ and lack of access.

Here in PA, there are numerous initiatives to recruit youth hunters. We have a mentored youth license, which is a fantastic thing. There is a push for Sunday hunting as a way to recruit more hunters, because it's the only day they may have to hunt. I'm all for Sunday hunting as long as it's biological and herd based, not because, you're too busy.

Since 2009 crossbows have been legal for archery. I won't get into my views on it, but it was to recruit new hunters. Our archery ranks went from 275,000 to 335,000. But rifle hunter numbers dropped by 250,000, from a peak of over 1,000,000 to around 750,000. All we did was shift 60,000 to archery season and still suffered a net loss of around 200,000 hunters.

There's a lot of reasons why hunting is in decline and allowing crossbows or Sunday hunting may, and I mean, may stem the tide, but only short term.

Just some ramblings on a rainy Sunday morning..... Feel free to jump in.

 

In VA we have gotten both cross bow and Sunday hunting established. Definitely makes it nice to be able to hunt an extra day. Crossbows, like you I will not comment on. It used to be only for the disabled for a reason. Anyway, being open to travel, find unconventional properties, etc. is important in order to find deer unless you have a large piece of land you own to monitor, improve, and manage. Hopefully PA will at least let you guys hunt on Sundays, as it has had a positive effect in our state.

 

One of the hunters here shot a ram this morning and found a surprise in its horns.

 

I was checking out the ranch owners wall of photos. I’m sure a lot of you can recognize this Hunter.

 

That is technically a hit, but not much of a blood trail!

 

Is that Nuge?!?! The spirit of the wild beast slayer?

 

Yep

 

I know that dude says he has never done drugs... But if you watch his show all the time like I do... He says some crazy shit!!!

 

Ohio has both crossbow and Sunday hunting. Did the crossbow bit for a few years as arm/shoulder issues wouldn't let me draw a compound bow. Once I could do it again, sold the crossbow and bought another compound. Practicing with the compound is half the fun!! Once you get your scope sighted in on the crossbow, there is no need to practice like with a coumpound/recurve/longbow.

When Sunday hunting was introduced, it was to get the youth more involved......hasn't done that in the least - in MY opinion. Farmers wanted more deer killed, but couldn't use that as the reason. Allowed all these 'FREE' licences/tags as part of the compromise to get Sundays legal. If you are a landowner, farmer, immediate family of either, tenant of farm or his immediate family......you get a free license and POSSIBLY some free deer tags - not sure about that part. My in laws have about 12 total acres, but neither hunts; my wife doesn't hunt; my kids don't hunt any more - they are all entitled to free licences. I am the only one who hunts, but I am not entitled to the free licence!!! NOT a blood relative.

The mentored hunts are OK, if they would be limited to 2 or maybe 3 seasons at the most. Have never read if there is a maximum number of mentored licences you can buy. Don't know of anyone who has taken advantage of this option.

Overall, hunter numbers here and in Pa. (where I go) seem to keep dropping as us 'older farts' can't do everything we used to and there are very few 'yungins' filling in the ranks. My son hunted till college than academics took priority (good kid!!). When in high school I had offered to take him to deer camp in Pa. with me for the opening 2 days of gun season, but classes were more important to him (that is one of my favorite memories growing up - deer camp). Again, I give him credit for his priorities. He may hunt again once he gets a job, but who knows where that will be.

Still enjoy deer camp in Pa. Even went the years after I had already gotten my buck with the bow and went twice after back surgeries when I couldn't hunt at all for that reason. Bought my non-resident licence (one year was a short term tourist small game one) the years of the surgeries to keep my string intact. 50 years this past fall without missing a licence.

The antler restrictions haven't really helped in my opinion. Yes we see some nice bucks, but we always did. The small spikes to forkhorns just outnumbered them is all. I have personally seen 1 'protected' buck since restrictions took effect.
A nice, fat spike 3 years ago walking 15 feet in front of me. The guys I hunt with see similar, very few 'protected' bucks.

You can't tell me that all the button bucks now turn into 5 pointers or better in a year and a half. Still have the same 'mountain deer' genetics and lesser food quality as always.

Pa. also had concurrent buck and doe seasons for several years along with the antler restrictions (still do but can't shoot a doe till first Saturday for the most part where I hunt). Those were my worst years hunting deer in PA!!! I could never get a doe tag for Forest County as a non resident as they always sold out before non residents could apply. So come opening day, I eventually never even got excited hearing closer shots as I assumed someone was shooting a doe!! Almost quit going there altogether, but they gradually cut back with the doe hunting to where it is today.

Boy that was a long winded rant!!!! Happens after snow blowing 12-16" of snow on 8 neighbors driveways (including mine). Has since gotten a bit warmer, but winds have really kicked up.

 

I don't see any problem with crossbows, so long as they are classified/grouped as what they are, basically rifles. They have no place in archery season IMO. I practice and practice and practice and would feel absolutely comfortable taking a 60 yard shot with my bow. Sighting in a crossbow and using a scope takes all the challenge and skill out if it

 

I really like Uncle Ted. But I’m not sure anybody likes Uncle Ted as much as Uncle Ted does.

 

I don’t care if anyone uses a crossbow. To each their own.

I think VA needs antler restrictions. At least in some areas. It will never happen though. In my (and @chiefcrunchy’s) county, season goes from beginning of September to end of April. You can buy an unlimited amount of doe tags. They just want the deer dead.

 

Yep. In 3 counties because of the attempt to reduce the population. Too many people running into them in their Mercedes. Doe only rifle (which can include any legal method ie archery, black powder or rifle) in September. October through December is buck and doe with different seasons. January through end of March is for only rifle. April is doe only archery.

One of my friends kills 25-30 deer a year. It’s insane.

 

I’m with you. I’m pretty wore out. Usually take at least a couple weeks off then try to get back out for some does.

I’m sure others shoot shed bucks but at archery range it’s oregty easy for me to tell them apart. I know my friend is the same. It’s harder to tell which does are pregnant. It’s a weird feeling pulling a well developed fawn out whole gutting.

 

Here we go.

 

Here in PA, the push and I really resented the NRA (still a strong supporter) sticking their nose into PA's archery season and making a big push for crossbow inclusion. The PGC used hunter recruitment as the reason, but I really can't recall the normal rank n file bowhunters pushing for crossbows. It was driven my the manufacturers as PA has one of the largest group of licensed bowhunters in the nation. And the recruitment side failed. Well over half of our archery kill is now by crossbows. What the manufacturers and shops have found out, is while there was a big push to buy crossbows, there was a corresponding drop in accessory sales. In other words once, the crossbows were set up, they didn't change sights, rests, quivers, or even upgrade their bows as frequently. Kinda of set and forget. I really wish Ravin's crossbow ad was out in 2009 when the PGC was debating the issue. You know the ad, "Meet your next hundred yard rifle."

Anyhow, what I really wanted to get at was recruitment. While video games may play a role, I think it's the extra-curricular activities that are hurting hunting. Kids today are enrolled in every activity under the sun. Hunting isn't THE thing to do, it's just one of many. It's not a priority any longer. Because if it was, well it would be. I hear a major push for Sunday hunting is that it's the only day kids have free. Sorry, that's not a reason. Between travel soccer, swim lessons, piano lessons, now it's travel baseball, and a myriad of other activities, legalizing Sunday hunting isn't gonna change a thing. And I'm not criticizing extra curricular activities. But if your kids (mostly the parents) want to be involved in all these activities, well choices need to be made. Not accommodations by the PGC to meet your hectic schedule. My son has played soccer and baseball. He knew that he would have to choose between sitting in a treestand on Saturday mornings or going to games. He chose soccer for a while. Now I can't keep him outta the woods. He loves to trout fish and chase turkeys. He gives up a fair amount of time in the woods and on the stream to play baseball. It's up to us parent to get the kids out in the woods. Both my daughters were exposed, killed a decent buck when my oldest girl was along. And in a few years, with my daughters blessing, my grandson and granddaughter will be exposed to it as well.

 

My last word on this as it's going to turn into a sh!tshow. We hear there is basically no difference between a compound and a crossbow. Remember the last time you raised your compound, that was already at full draw, nestled the buttstock into your shoulder, wrapped your fingers around the pistol grip, steadied the forestock on the ladderstand rest, placed the reticle of your 4X power scope in the sweet spot behind the shoulder, flipped off the safety, and squeezed the trigger? Yeah, me neither.

I have zero issue with those that have a physical issue that precludes them from using a compound or stickbow. And with the issues I have with my shoulder, my guess is I'll be using one in five years.

 

Here in ct, Sunday hunting was made legit only a couple years ago...well sort of.
Archery only on private land. Well great. I hunt public land.
Total nonsense. But that's the norm here.
I always felt if you can buy booze, go to a strip club, gamble in a casino, go to sports games, and soon, buy pot, why can't I hunt?

Kids hunting around here? Few, as in very few.

Crossbow?
Yep, I hunt with one.
100 yard gun? No.
Sighted in for 60, but I won't shoot outside of my 40 yard circle.
Unfair advantage? IMO, sort of, but I still have a 40 yard circle.

I hunt with traditional Muzzleloaders too, like flintlocks. Do I care if someone is using a modern inline with optics? No.

When compounds came into their own 30 something years ago, I heard from the stick bow guys that those "bows with wheels"will ruin it for everybody and it was cheating. The unwashed masses of compound guys were going to ruin "their" woods.
God forbid you used a release, because "real " archers shoot fingers.

Crossbow was never my first choice or to gain an "advantage".
It kept me in the game.
After a few shoulder and arm surgeries where anchors and shoelaces hold my arms together.
Rather take my compound out, which I do a few times a season when I'm up for it.

Since they made crossbows legit here, i really haven't seen a great influx of new people around, at least in my section of public land.