Archery Talk

Shaking from excitement, it was bad.

But you put 40 2/3 up the body and your 20 and 30 aren't even on it.

 

we've all been there!, but that's a pretty big shooting difference from 40 yards to 25 yards, I'm just saying! maybe next time! (see, I'm used to saying that, I'm from Ohio & the Cleveland Clowns)

 

With the amount of tags you can get in MD I wouldnt worry too much about what comes in, at some point there will be a nice buck if thats what you are looking for...

 

Yeh...you are basically in DC. I avoid that city like the plague (well...except for the fact that I go to school there and have to be there every night Monday through Thursday)! Where I hunt is about another hour south of you.

It's really a catch 22. In the DC area, the deer population is a problem. They give us a shit ton of tags because there are so many deer around here. I try to be selective in hopes that a nice buck will stick around the property and pass on his genetics, but most of the time that ends up backfiring because someone else will shoot it. Unless everyone else is on board, that philosophy doesn't really work out, and you just have to go out whacking everything in sight in hopes that a nice buck will goof up one day and walk in your shooting lane. Personally, I hope that Virginia moves to a 1 buck tag type of licensing system, as opposed to 3. Killing does is what controls the population anyways, which is the state's supposed goal for offering so many tags.

 

The whole genetic argument doesn't really hold up. Antler growth is highly dependent on resource availability and not genetic. Big racks come from age and fat, happy deer.

 

Exactly...Unless you are on a managed FENCED property, being selective on your part is great but the other 100+ people that just shoot whatever really negates any dreams you may have of harvesting a big mature buck. Not to say they arent around its just saying due to population and tags available you have less of a chance of getting a nice buck.

Theres a nice bowhunting only for Military outside of Waldorf but theres also many hunters near there that just shoot whatever so its really luck of the draw if you get a nice buck. They try to manage the hunting area by 3point or greater on one side as their minimum but that only works if everyone is in agreement in the area. Otherwise they dont get to get much bigger than forkers.

 

While I agree with resource availability (nutrition), every deer (or other antler-ed animal) has a pre-determined genetic limit past which it's rack simply cannot grow.

ETA: Age, of course, matters. The same principle remains true though, if you're not going to be selective in what you shoot, you're never going to give deer the chance to grow.

 

you cant rule out genetics...genetics has a lot to do with how big a bucks antlers grow as much as the food they eat.

 

To an extent, ya but it's not like a small buck is only going to produce future small bucks. I am trying to find a really cool study completed in Wyoming at the Sybille wildlife research center. Basically they took deer from South Dakota (or north, but regardless they were small), had them reproduce and then compared the growth of the baby deer (well fed) to the father. It was insane the amount of difference between them.

 

Forkies are terrible.

 

I definitely agree. Small bucks can pass on the potential for big racks, but big bucks have a much better chance of doing so.

 

This is simply not true. If so explain these very young bucks' mass and size. This guy owns the company my wife works for and breeds and sells deer and deer semen. Commands tens of thousands of dollars for a hunt on his property and is ALWAYS booked full. In my opinion this unnatural breeding is total bull shit, and even hurting the image of hunting. I'm just saying your run of the mill buck will NEVER reach this sizes regardless of age and nutrition, not with out good genetics.

 

hes gotta have some damn serious neck muscles to hold all that bone up!

 

Welp, dreams dashed, hunting season ruined. Might as well pack it up for the year, because I won't see anything remotely close to as big and nasty as those bucks' racks.

 

Targets with some hunting, but I haven't hunted in a long time. Need to get the bow serviced.

Later.

 

I'd rather take a nice fair chase natural buck than any of those deer. I've turned down a chance to "manage hunt" this property. It's not what hunting is to me at least.

 

Where in the world is this place?

Later.

 

I am not arguing that genetics do not play a role. I am saying nutrition plays a larger role. Simply not shooting big bucks won't solve your problems in wild populations. Here's a recap on the article. I took a class from this guy and he went into more detail of the process but I won't try to speak on his behalf. There is also some awesome research on hunting and reduction in horn size of big horn sheep in Canada (that argues genetics/selection). The two debated (not really, since the topics are so different) but it was interesting none the less. Genetics DO play a role, but nutrition (and maternal effects) play a larger role in antler growth. You can, and people do, breed for antler size. The same as we breed horses for various traits, or plants etc. BUT those deer are also getting the best nutrition available.

http://www.boone-crockett.org/news/featured_story.asp?area=news&ID=56

 

We call those GENETIC FREAKS!

 

or should I say messed with genetic freaks