Archery Talk

Agree with you 100%

 

And I agree with you!

 

I have the time but not the space. Im primarily meat hunter. Would i shoot a big buck if it came through? yes! Have i passed on yearlings?Yes! Kentucky has some really good bucks. More than i realised even close down the road from me

 

Stopped in Le Roy for the night

 

Never heard of it.

 

Small town SE down 74 from Bloomington

 

Don’t judge. Cheap hotels

 

Dennis: Not trying to be argumentative with you, but I think genetics and food are more important overall for both body and antler size as opposed to age. BUT, if you already have the genetics and food to provide BIG bucks - like you have in Illinois - then, yes, age is very important. As an example, where I used to hunt in Pa. was in the 'mountains' with minimal agriculture (food) and not great genetics. However, if you hunt closer to Ohio in the rolling farmlands (food) the genetics are better which leads to larger bodied/racked bucks.

 

I wouldn’t disagree with anything you said, I know that some areas just aren’t capable of growing big bucks with big racks. However, even with good food sources and good genetics you still need age for a deer to reach its potential. Age may not be the number one factor but you can’t grow big bucks without age unless you’re a deer farmer producing genetic Frankenstein deer with 2 and 3 year old bucks with 200 inch racks, which I’m opposed to. Some deer farmers are producing bucks with 400 to 600 inch racks.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is that no matter where you live/hunt whether or not you have the food and or genetics a 5 year old buck will almost always have a bigger rack than a 2 or 3 year old. I just happen to be in an area that has it all.

 

Dennis: I agree with you, too. Where I hunted in Pa never had LOTS of big bucks, but, always had have some decent (older) ones. When the Game commission went to antler restrictions (3 points to a side in my area) to allow bucks to get older, I hunted the same spot for about 10 more years and saw exactly 1 "protected" buck (a spike)!!! My buddies still hunt the same area and their kills are no bigger/better than 20+ years ago.

RHETORICAL QUESTIONS: What happened to all the other less than 5 point bucks over that time??? The bucks didn't automatically go from button bucks to 5 pointers in 1 year??? Yes, Pa is killing larger bucks, but, I think that is because that is all they are allowed to kill??? I have shot several spikes and fork horns over there - they tasted great!!!! PRESSURE on public land also played a part in shooting the first 'legal' buck you saw because if you didn't the next guy with a chance would.

Ohio has some monsters, like Illinois....I have seen several and missed a few over the years. Hunting pressure locally along with lack of property access to hunt is making it more difficult around me to enjoy hunting anymore.

 

Deer hunting has become too commercialized and all of the outfitting has put deer hunting out of reach for many people and that’s a damn shame.

 

I guess this depends on where you are in your deer hunting "quest" and what you want out of it. There's a time in my life when I would have taken that deer and then drove it all over the place showing it off. I am between houses now and have a storage unit full of mounts. So I am more selective at this point.

Your at a check-in station or wherever hunters may gather on opening morning. Someone has a really nice buck and people are gathered around. Someone gets out of a truck with a small 4 pointer in the bed and states "nice deer, I never see anything like that where I hunt". Well no, because one, you're not hunting anymore. Not going to see that trophy with that four pointer in the freezer and watching football. And two, you shot that four pointer before he could grow into that trophy.

 

Gonna disagree with that. While genetics are important, I think age is far more important. I have hunted the mountains of north central PA and the ridge and valleys of south central PA. Since 2002 (when the antler restrictions went into place there has been a significant increase in rack size. And the data proves it out. And when aged, the majority of bucks are over 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 years old. Prior to 2002 80% of buck were removed and they were predominately 1-1/2 year old deer. One other thing that folks fail to consider is the hunting season and type of weapon. Illinois' firearm season is basically 8 days long and I'm pretty sure centerfires are illegal. Ohio's is a bit longer but again no centerfires. PA's is 14 days long, and aside from two small special regs areas, centerfires are legal. BTW, guess where the largest buck come from? Ya. the special regs areas. Because they get a chance to get past the 3-1/2 year mark. And buck older than that are very different animals than a 2-1/2 year old.

Also Illinois has about 235,000 hunters. Total. PA has 350,000 bowhunters. Total hunters? 855,000. Ohio? About 360,400 total hunters. It makes a huge difference in getting bucks past that magical 3-1/2 years. And if genetics DO play a major part, they need to make it long enough to be a dominate breeder within a given area.

 

Illinois has 7 days of gun season split into 2 seasons. You can use a shotgun or a rifle that shoots a straight wall cartridge or a necked cartridge that’s no longer than 1 and 2/5’s inches long, also a single shot. We have a 3 day muzzle loader season.
The only real management policy we have is a 2 buck limit, I wished it was 1. We can shoot as many doe’s as we want as long as we have the permits, no limit.

 

I couldn't say whether genetics or age is more important, they obviously both are. But I will say that genetics is a huge part of it.
For example....
Missouri doesnt get the high praises that Illinois does, yet Missouri has some huge deer. But....Missouri's gun season is twice as long as Illinois gun season and Missouri also allows centerfires. And Missouri also has a lengthy muzzleloader season. Genetics are why we have some big deer, its definitely not because of restricted seasons.
I choose to hunt Illinois over my home state of Missouri for 2 reasons;
1. The amount of public land within 45 miles from my house is overwhelming. I have easy access to at least 50k areas within that distance. And that doesnt include the Shawnee National forest that is a 40 minute drive for me. I doubt I'll ever bowhunt Missouri again, I havent in 25 years.
2. I've hunted Illinois for basically my entire bowhunting career, I have no desire to try retrain myself on new property.

The out of state tags are pricey, but I figure that just keeps the riffraff out.

 

One thing that has helped the Missouri deer herd as far as bigger bucks in recent years is the 4 point restriction. That in theory should allow all spikes, fork horns and 6 pointers to get a free pass, which will increase age structure.

 

I had forgotten about that

 

Im on the board!

 

hell yea Will - congrats man!!!

we need the story!!