Armed security in schools, yes or no.

Oh no OZ, that would be terrible, it would just invite abuse from the rich white people against the poor minorities, it would be socioeconomic racism!!!!!





Oh wait, that's the way it is now......NEVERMIND, carry on.

 

I am a retired LEO. I carry almost everywhere I go with my state issued retired ID card and my state issued HR-218 card. I qualify on a regular basis and still shoot with the my former agency, using my own ammo.

I would gladly volunteer one or two days a week without pay to provide security at my neighboorhood school. I am receiving my state pension and do not need benefits.

My former agency has extra hand held radios and extra ballistic vests so this would not be a budget concern. I also know agencies have spares and backups.

This is a no brainer and would not cost any money. The school district or the local LE agency could use the community resource officer to schedule retirees to cover the school days.

Why make an elephant out of a mouse.........it's so simple.

 

Bad analogy.

Guns are a tool used for violence (and let's call it "violence" instead of "gun violence")
Without guns, it would be "knife violence" or "club violence", or simply physical assault.
Cigarettes are a direct CAUSE of lung cancer. Guns are not the direct cause of violence.

Making bombs is already illegal. Many materials are already highly restricted.
Yet criminals still make bombs and use them to kill people.

The people responsible for Columbine obtained their guns illegally. They illegally made bombs. They illegally brought guns onto school property.
they illegally shot and killed other people. They illegally attempted to detonate bombs.

You're saying that one more law would have stopped that?


The cat's out of the bag. The government could push a button and make every single firearm in the country disappear, and that would last for about 12 hours before someone with some very basic machine tools builds another one or they are illegally imported. With an imported barrel and a couple of additional parts, I can build an AK47 in about 5 hours using nothing more than a $100 Harbor Freight hydraulic press and some basic hand tools.
A single-shot "zip gun" can be made very quickly.

Guns are 100% restricted in civilian hands in Mexico. Look what good that has done. It has simply created a "target rich" environment where the drug cartels have nothing to fear from civilians.

Criminals will always be able to obtain the tools of their trade, whether illegally importing them, making them, or stealing/buying them from someone in the police or military.
This goes for guns, knives, clubs, etc....

Laws outlawing specific weapons are and always have been ineffective for a number of reasons, primarily because:
1 - The criminal does not believe they will be caught
2 - The criminal does not care if they are caught because they intend to a) die during the encounter or b) return to prison where they have spent the majority of their life
3 - If the tool of choice of a criminal is not available, another will be selected.

 

Automatic weapons are already highly regulated, and completely illegal in some states.
Those who have the required permits to own automatic weapons are not going to risk it unless they do not intend to survive the crime.

Automatic weapons being illegal in California(*) did not stop the North Hollywood bank robbery



(*)It is possible to obtain NFA paperwork in California if you obtain a CaDOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit.
That's how the law is on the books.
CaDOJ will not issue the DW Permit.

 

Not a bad idea.

55% of the California budget is pissed away into the most bloated and ineffective school system in the country.

 

If you abandoned public school do you not feel that you would just create a greater social / economic / employment issue in about 10 years

 

Schools currently have a full time police officer--Pretty sure he has his piece--never really paid that much attention.
Going to check when school is back in session.
Right acrosss the street.

 

Vouchers.

I understand that Americans are irresponsible and if every Californian were given a 55% tax cut, that money would be pissed away on 22" rims and light bars.

Take that 55% of the budget and instead convert it to vouchers.

Now, everyone is on the same "even ground" that they are now.
The wealthy can still buy a highly rated school, but the poor will still have their voucher to spend at the school of their choice.

The difference is, rather than 50% of that budget being gobbled up by administrative overhead in Sacramento and district HQ, it would get directly to the local school.

67.1 billion for 2012 (K-12 only).
35.1 million residents.
$1,911.68 per California resident.

24.6% of the population is under 18, so that's 8.6 million
6.7% of the population is under 5, so that's 2.35 million
8.6 - 2.35 = 6.25 million K-12

67.1 billion
6.25 million students
$10,763 per student.

 

you just don't get it.

if there are more students than schools...a free market will open more schools. why is that so hard for you to understand?

and it's nothing at all like colleges & universities. those institutions are user pays systems...public schools are paid with tax dollars.

I'll try again:
EACH CHILD RECIEVES A VOUCHER...THE VOUCHER REPRESENTS DOLLARS (AN ENTRY FEE...A TOKEN...)
THE PARENT CAN CHOOSE THE PLACE OF EDUCATION HE WANTS FOR HIS CHILD.
THE CHOICE CAN BE BASED ON A HISTORICAL ACCOUNT OF QUALITY EDUCATION...THE SECURITY...A PARTICULAR CIRRICULUM...A PARTICULAR TEACHER(S)...OR EVEN LOCATION...

the decision becomes the parents...not the government.

it will work...it has worked. it gives parents choices...it gives lower income kids an option.

the current system does none of the above.

 

Who pays to build the schools ? Surely the voucher won't cover the costs

 

so why not fix it.

oh wait...they tried it in poor districts in Miami...and many of the parents used the vouchers to send their kids to better schools outside their government mandated district...

and...oh crap...many of the kids got a better education.

the abuse is the politicians and special interest groups (teacher union) fighting for their personal power...instead of what's best for the education of the kids.

VOUCHERS LIFT UP THE LOWER INCOME STUDENTS.

and...it's proven to work...while the current system does not.

why are some afraid to impliment it? oh wait...many feel government is the answer to all problems.

 

are you serious?

PRIVATE INVESTMENT!!!

do you have any clue how many private schools would open up if the voucher system was inacted nationally?

do you have any business experience? ever made a capital investment?

 

So you are advocating completely non public school system , that's not what you said before

 

and I'm not saying it now...

I'm saying the free market will raise the bar (excellence) in education for ALL.

yes, including the public schools. they will not have the tax funded monopoly anymore.

 

btw...

you do understand that all schools were origionally private schools in America. there is no constitutional authority for a public school system.

 

Irrelevant to the discussion of the current system

I'm going to go enjoy my turkey dinner

 

very revalant

enjoy your dinner

 

Parents should do their job and raise sensible,productive citizens.
Then we won't be having this discussion.

 

You just made the case for concealed carry by teachers and staff.

When there are one or two, or even three or four armed security or police officers, in uniform, they are obviously the first targets, and easy to avoid if you know what they look like. Teachers and staff in plain clothes, who have a concealed firearms are an unknown. Maybe they are carrying, maybe they aren't. You don't know. And 200 teachers and staff who may or may not be armed provide much higher security wall than one or two uniformed officers who can't be everywhere all the time.

Sure, not every teacher will chose to carry, that's their choice. But it should be their choice. If they want to cower in fear, crying and praying for help in a closet or behind a desk while some mentally ill psycho shoots them and their students, that also is their choice. But for those who don't want to sit by idly as they are murdered, give them the tools to defend themselves and their charges.

I was listening to NPR a couple of days ago, and one of the listener comments was from a teacher who was actually angry and insulted that people expected her to defend her students as part of her job. Well, yes, yes I do.

 

If a teacher doesn't care enough about his\her students too protect them, than he\she shouldn't be teaching in the first place.