Aspect ratio and winter traction

Good to know that vehicles operating in conditions different than 99.99% of US drivers experience (compact snow and ice, a few inches of snow, or a mile or two of unplowed road before reaching compact snow and ice) need something different than 99.99% of US drivers experience. Thanks bro. Cool story. But do try to stay on topic next time.

 

So riddle me this BlueTman. Why don't they put those same studs in 10 or 12 inch wide tires? It's not like they are lacking clearance or budget.

 

Because 10-12 inch wide tires with studs would be slowing you down and Rally is a race not a crawl.
Same thing why putting bigger tires kills your MPG.
They design tires that provide maximum traction with out sacrificing power.
Those rally tires are run 30 psi and above. I would like to see any of the people with "Skinny tires are best for snow driving" run those Ice tires at 30-35 psi with no studs and show me how skinny is better since everybody likes to point to them.

If its -14 F and snowing even little flurry you aint driving on Asphalt either on your skinny rubber tires. And Yes it would be better to have wide tires with studs.... As long as you dont mind crappy MPG and slow performance, but grip would be phenomenal .
Look at the tires, what do you think those metal clits are in them.

Bottom line is if you are in place that skinny tires work for you, you are simply in little snow/ice zone. If Skinny tires work there than you can run good all season tires. You dont need dedicated winter tire.

 

Wait, what? I don't think you thought that one all the way through. Go ahead and take another shot.

 

Right. Places where there are roads. We know some trucks are set up for driving in snow where there are no roads. But that isn't what we are talking about here.

 

Actually the original post has to do with aspect ratio being part of the equation. This equation is also on cleared roads and not floating to the North Pole.

To answer the OP, skinnier offer a longer contact patch and more downward force/less ability to shear and break traction. Same for on dirt or ice. Ice is just more slippery than dirt sometimes . . .

Get the 245 Winter Tires of your choice.

 

Holy Mary mother of god.

Regarding aspect ratio and going from 245-75 to 265-75... the 75 is a percent. It's not a static measurement. What we are considering when saying a tire is wide or skinny is the height to width ratio, not a static width measurement. That's why I brought aspect ratio into the original question (assuming the rim size stays the same).

A 245mm wide ("skinny") tire can get "fat" if you shorten it (i.e. if the aspect ratio changes). Point being- you can have a 245mm wide tire and whether it is "fat" or "skinny" is dependent on aspect ratio.

You could have very wide tire, but per that tires height, it's actually "skinnier" in comparison to a tire that actually measures less in width and is at the same time shorter.

A 10" wide by 30" tall tire on a 15" rim is a skinny tire. A 7" wide by 16" tall tire on a 15" rim is a fatter tire. So, everyone here that says a narrower tire is better.... would choose the 7" X 16" because it's narrower? Or the 10" X 30" because it's "skinnier"?

I think I'd choose the wider tire because of its aspect ratio.

 

I'm really sorry, but you make me want to beat my head against a wall.

You asked for other people opinions when you made this thread, you got them, don't fight them. Take everything everyone has said into consideration, take the facts, science, and bullshit that's been spewed out here and if you still think you're right so be it.

 

If you can handle the 10 ply go for 235/85r16. You know how the slush and hard pack builds up between lanes and in passing lanes in the winter? You'll never even feel that deep stuff as you plow through it where you kind of hydroplane with wider tires. It's a little taller than a 265/75r16 but way skinnier and an amazing winter tire size for these trucks.

235/85 compared to 265/75

 

I answered your original post two posts up from this ha.

I see your reasoning as far as fat and skinny being relative to the rest of the tires dimensions (aspect ratio) and I get what you're saying. But for your scenario (on road, no major depth) the aspect ratio doesn't matter a whole lot for width so much as it does for length.

A skinny is a skinny. For example. The 235 posted above is about 9.25 inches wide.

A 235 is roughly 9.25" wide weather the aspect ratio is 50 or 85.

Let's say 235/50-16 is about 25" tall and a 235/86-16 is about 32" tall.

Both are still roughly the same width, with roughly the same rolling properties as far as forward displacement of snow and downward force on ice (compared to a very wide tire, say 300 something).

What you do get with the taller aspect ratio of 85 is, firstly, a taller tire, which would be better for deep stuff but in this scenario there's isn't any. But you also get a Longer contact patch. As in, still 9" wide, but for the sake of argument about 12% longer.

So IF one wants more surface area it would behoove them to get a taller tire in the aspect ratio department, i.e. +1 sizing if possible.


If you have two tires, both exactly 32" tall, but one is 9" wide and the other is 12" wide, the difference in the contact patch will be that one is skinny and the other wide, yes. But the skinny patch will also be longer and the wide patch much shorter.

So to overly simplify for the sake of a analogy, if you lay your forearm on the table and say it's your tire's contact patch, would you rather it driving long ways or sideways?

This is the other factor most don't consider.

1.) overall patch will be smaller, causing more downward force per square inch, making it harder for the tire to sheer, or break/slip traction.

2.) Not only is skinnier better than fatter (I mean, look at Americans haha), but longer is better than wider as well.

 

Where I am, once it starts snowing and it gets more than a 3 inches when its below 20 F it does not matter whats underneath. Ice layer forms pretty quickly and all you driving on is snow/ice. Asphalt or gravel underneath makes no difference because rubber tire will not go through the ice layer.

I don't care what you say because you are wrong. In General I don't listen to people who are wrong.
My "winter" tire that I use for getting around during blizzards is 13.5 wide. It works, and it works all the time. With that wide tire its irrelevant if we are getting 3 inches of snow or 3 feet of snow. Still works and that's the point.
I don't care about legion of drivers because legions of drivers are stuck every winter. All around me are hills so people with skinny tires are the ones standing on the hill spinning wheels and blocking everybody else.

If you can use skinny tires than you live in a place where winter is not that bad. So you are just lucky and I envy you..
I live in a place that you can stand and spin your skinny tires on half a inch of ice with snow for hours until your vehicle catches on fire or you run out of fuel.
That is what we get in our winters.

 

Alright, I can't take this anymore.

The width of the tires is not the sole determining factor for whether or not you'll get stuck. A wider tire is more likely to 'float' on a snowy surface than a narrow one. It's simple physics: A larger contact patch equates to lower ground PSI. That's why snowcats can float on top of snow even though they weigh 3-4 tons. A smaller contact patch (like what you get with NARROWER) tires produces a higher ground PSI. The higher the PSI, the higher the level of friction (and therefore traction) produced by the contact patch, all other things being equal. THAT is why narrower tires are recommended for winter driving. Because, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL (ie- driver skill, proper inflation, tread design, vehicle weight, etc), a narrower tire provides better traction on a slick road surface than a wider one.

I also live in the Northeast, in hilly terrain, and when I had a light little 2wd Nissan pickup I always ran a narrower tire in the winter, never got stuck, and took it through several storms that dropped 2+ feet. I lived on top of a hill and never had any trouble getting home. I also saw lots of fat-tired lifted trucks in the ditch. Your example is irrelevant because it's based on driver skill and not on the tires being used.

 

@BlueT I think you should try a narrow tire in your conditions and let us know how they perform compared to your beloved 13.5's. Take videos and post! I think you'll be surprised.

 

well you are wrong, just like the other posters are saying about your info

I am an old timer, and lived on a steep hill in the mountains of Maine, and have seen it all,
and pushed it all, and dug it all, etc.

from the 60's to now. I also have driven in the Wasatch mt's in Utah in the wilderness, in the alps, and
on top of glaciers, in all conditions, 1mm of snow, to 15 feet of compressed crust. (it is the 15 feet of crust where your FAT tires
would rule, by the way)

every clown in town
going up my hill

I know what gets stuck and what doesn't
and also my own vehicles, I know what type of tires does what in whichever conditions

 

Where in Maine? I grew up in Farmington.


We know snow. Icy, wet, heavy, fluffy....if it falls from the sky we've seen it!

 

Really you think I have not tried

Well that could be very easy to settle.
1 Purchase rally type super skinny tires with Rims that fit Tacoma (looking for setup right now) since everybody want to point to them.
2. Pull all the studs out, pump them to normal Rally pressure of 30-35 PSi
3. Find a hill with ice on it something like normal half an inch.
4. Try to climb hill on those skinny tires.

If Skinny is truly better and as people say it can "get to asphalt" then should be no issue.

Now what we wage ?

 

Are you trolling? Because that's seriously the only way that you could be this dense.

All other factors being equal, a narrower tire will provide greater ground pressure, producing more friction, and thereby yielding greater traction.
If you want to dig, go skinny. If you want to float, go wide.
If you're driving on the road, you don't want to float. Floating causes a loss of traction, and the wider your tire the more likely it is to float.

 

BlueT is trolling.

 

One can only hope.
Otherwise...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooDumbToLive