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ATO does Miss Blue

Discussion in 'Armor Tech Offroad' started by jandrews, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. Mar 17, 2011 at 6:59 PM
    #41
    05tacoSPORT

    05tacoSPORT Well-Known Member

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    Are you putting lower gears in?
     
  2. Mar 17, 2011 at 7:10 PM
    #42
    jandrews

    jandrews [OP] Carolina Alliance Southwest Region Ambassador

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    They'll be 4.56s, from whatever Chase happens to note is the highest quality manufacturer, and I'm going to have them cryo'd as well.
     
  3. Mar 18, 2011 at 6:50 AM
    #43
    BlueT

    BlueT Well-Known Member

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    I moded 1999 Taco so much it had turned to Land Cruiser
    Why not go to regular axle with ARB? I doubt putting 4.56 solves anything really. The only differnece between 4.56 and 3.73 is number of teeth.
    But ring is still thin. :confused:
     
  4. Mar 18, 2011 at 6:58 AM
    #44
    05tacoSPORT

    05tacoSPORT Well-Known Member

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    Not mine. My 4.56 are thick cut and twice as thick as what he broke
     
  5. Mar 18, 2011 at 7:13 AM
    #45
    Fire931

    Fire931 Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Well first of all it's not just the fact that it's a 8" elocker rear, to break like that was just a matter of several factors coming together at the same time. It's more than easy enough to blow out the 8.4 rear on these trucks as well. But if he goes to 4.56's but keeps the smaller 3.73 and down carrier then he will have the thick cut gears which will add some beef to it, plus if he has them treated that will help as well.
     
  6. Mar 18, 2011 at 7:42 AM
    #46
    brutalguyracing

    brutalguyracing BIG DADDY

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    F.U> GUYZ
    broken mods
    Because the 8" locked guyz ride hard
     
  7. Mar 18, 2011 at 8:31 AM
    #47
    Fire931

    Fire931 Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Precisely. Mainly because every 8" you see is an elocker rear so obviously LOCKER.... I guarantee you I can go out and easily blow my 8.4 with the LOCKER kicked in. It's just plain and simple physics... if you lock and axle and things get bound up something has to give PERIOD. Doesn't matter what kind of axle it is something will give, either you will spin tires, or something will break. Just so happens that in stock form the ring gear is the weak point so that's what gives. This is the exact same principal that I was explaining to you about the front end with a locker as well.
     
  8. Mar 18, 2011 at 8:37 AM
    #48
    Namyo

    Namyo -

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    :facepalm:seen him say that too
     
  9. Mar 18, 2011 at 9:27 AM
    #49
    Fire931

    Fire931 Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Well my guess is that he shock loaded the rear end which can easily cause things to break. Get some tire spin and then suddenly the tires find traction..... bang! Seen it happen many times to many different trucks. No way around that other than being very cautious.
     
  10. Mar 18, 2011 at 11:22 AM
    #50
    BlueT

    BlueT Well-Known Member

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    I moded 1999 Taco so much it had turned to Land Cruiser
    Not that I want to challenge you o n that, but how can you make ring thicker for e=locker ? there is no room for thicker gear. Unless you play with carrier being off center in bearings. :confused:
    Do you have pics comparing stock 8.4, 8.0 and yours?
    I am interested to see how much is thicker.
    EDIT: Do you have e-locker or you have 8.4 ?


    By now there are probably as many locked 8.4's then e-lockers. Still odds are not in favor of TRD. Plus a lot of people who broke them were not even locked. My buddy broke his on highway with his truck not even seeing any offroading. (we were going for his first offroad run :rolleyes: ) Same thing ring was split to million pieces.
    Also when I had seen people brake 8.4 gears, they end up shearing teeth rather then splitting the ring. Split ring I had only seen on 2gen TRD OR. That tells me right there that ring simply is too thin to hold up. Thats why it splits instead of shearing its teeth.
    You can cryo for sure but doesn't cryoed stuff wear faster? thats why Cryoed birfs are for offroad only :confused:
     
  11. Mar 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM
    #51
    05tacoSPORT

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    Didn't measure but from a bare eye my new gears were beefed up vs my stock. Call ECGS.
     
  12. Mar 18, 2011 at 2:15 PM
    #52
    jandrews

    jandrews [OP] Carolina Alliance Southwest Region Ambassador

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    This is correct.


    I *think* this is correct as well.

    When we recovered me in reverse, I was running 4Lo with A-TRAC. I gave the truck very light gas in reverse and let the strap do the rest. When it came off the log, one rear tire came down on another smaller log while the other hit dirt.

    I think the difference in traction with the wheelspin just goosed the ring gear the wrong way at the wrong time. That's when everyone who was outside the truck said they heard the first noise.

    Then it drove fine downhill for a hundred yards, and started acting up severely on the uphill...Im guessing since I was mostly on the brakes downhill, the driveline load was less.



    I already have two e-locker 3rd members. I can have them built for less than the cost of purchasing a used 8.4 3rd and ARB setup, meaning for the same money I can have a very strong rear end plus a spare. Plus, the trouble of running the electrical and air wiring for the ARB is eliminated.

    Going to 4.56 does a few things:

    - First and most importantly you can SWITCH GEAR MANUFACTURERS. This problem is with the Toyota gear manufacturing process, not the design of the gear. A same sized ring gear could be made much stronger by use of a gear made from a stronger alloy.

    - Cryo treating helps eliminate weak spots.

    - 4.56 ratio means the truck is less sensitive to skinny pedal...more engine revs required to turn the wheels once, so you have an extra "margin of error" if you tap the gas at the wrong time...the wheels will be spinning less, which means less force to shockload the drivetrain if one of them grabs.
     
  13. Mar 18, 2011 at 5:35 PM
    #53
    05tacoSPORT

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    [​IMG] These are my gears, See how thick they are
     
  14. Mar 18, 2011 at 5:40 PM
    #54
    whippersnapper02

    whippersnapper02 Well-Known Member

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    The truck looks great man. I will get armored up one day hopefully.
     
  15. Mar 18, 2011 at 10:07 PM
    #55
    lexmedic157

    lexmedic157 DNR's and Refusals!

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    As John and others know, talk to Kevin at Armor Tech, he'll get you straight!
     
  16. Mar 19, 2011 at 3:53 AM
    #56
    dbronzo

    dbronzo Protected by Armor Tech Offroad

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    What gears are those?
     
  17. Mar 19, 2011 at 4:46 AM
    #57
    05tacoSPORT

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    Yukon 4.56. 8.4"
     
  18. Mar 19, 2011 at 11:46 AM
    #58
    BlueT

    BlueT Well-Known Member

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    Ok but those are 8.4 I misunderstood you then I though you had 8 gears that were thick.
    Yeah 8.4 is thicker by a lot. I know people running 37-39 inch tires with those and not breaking them, despite wheeling the heck out of them on boulders.[​IMG]
    Thats why I dont think going to 4.56 even cryoed will make that much of the difference.



    Having lower ratio (higher gear number) is definetely better for control and even if you cryoed them I still think you are pushing luck. Its heavy truck its small ring something has to go.
    I know 8.4 are used on much heavier trucks and bigger tires and they rarely break. More often you snap axle. However, they break when they get loose enough and pinion preload gets screwed up.
    I know you have now spare one but swapping diff on the trail is not fun thing to do. plus are you gonna drag third member with you everywhere?
    I am just saying that if you planning to wheel you probably better off swapping axle.

    BTW: How about mods moving that part of discussion to 2gen section.
     
  19. Mar 19, 2011 at 10:11 PM
    #59
    jandrews

    jandrews [OP] Carolina Alliance Southwest Region Ambassador

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    The issue is the Toyota gears, not the size. I've been talking a lot over the past couple days with the guys at ECGS. They've seen a LOT of blown stock Taco rear-ends, have replaced them with Nitro gears in a number of ratios, and have seen almost no failures with the aftermarket gears.

    The problem is not in the gear size - it's that Toyota's supplier is building shitty gears for the 8 inch third.

    Shit, really?

    On the trails? Yes.

    What is this "planning to"? I'm already wheeling. More than I should.

    And swapping axles makes no sense at all. I have a perfectly functional locker, and can build a diff with gears that won't break for about $600...with the same cost for the front end, if I want to regear, which I do.

    Spare built diff for the same price a third time.

    Compare that to whatever the cost of the axle is, plus paying to purchase an ARB and the associated hardware, plus paying to purchase the regear, plus the personal time to install all that shit.

    Swapping axles is going to cost more and be more of a pain in the ass. Period.
     
  20. Mar 19, 2011 at 10:32 PM
    #60
    Ahshiet

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    Nice set of goodies wish i lived near by nice truck and wheels looks good
     
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