Audio upgrade advice for 2023 TRD OR

nah, i only recommend keeping them within the cab because the split point of the oem wiring is at the dash tweeter plug. doing your own wiring(which is ideal anyways), negates that. really whereever one can jam them in at that point, though it makes the most sense near the amp location. normally there's enough space to mount an additional box or 4, and it presents a little better.

if one were to be re-wiring new speakers and putting the woofer and tweeter in the door panel, it makes much more sense to bury it within the door.

 

So, here's a dilemma: do I run the Key in Bi-Amp mode to the components (negating the need for the Xover), and run the rears from the deck. Or go four channel? I do kinda miss music coming from behind me, though I get that the door speakers are basically pointed at a black hole of sound.

 

the key can't be ran in bi-amp mode without additional filtering components, as it only has 3 fixed crossover points. so the best option here is to run it in 4 channel mode.

 

So a bit of an update. I probably should have listened to others who said basically "just go big because you'll wind up doing it anyway." So, $1100 later...

Head unit: still stock.
Amp 1: Kicker Key 200.4 running four channels to:
2 Infinity Reference component 6x9s woofers / ".75 tweeters with passive crossovers
2 Infinity Reference coaxial 6.5"s
Amp 2: Kicker Key 500 monoblock running to.... currently nothing.

Christmas got me the Key500 and a Kicker 8" sub with box Kicker 48TCWRT82 which other here and elsewhere said would fit in the rear compartment with no modifications. Well....

It doesn't. Or rather, it would if the speaker wasn't there. You can jam it in, damaging the speaker and your truck, and the sub is sitting up against the bin lip. Or you can cut sections of the bin. Or... you can return it. For this:
Rockford Fosgate P3SD4-10
Which I did. But not not have gotten it yet. I also bought the Skar box, which I have gotten, and looks pretty sweet. Besides the $1000 Stealthbox, could not find anything else for that space. And what sucks is I have a 10" JL sub. But it's not gonna fit in there. So.... thoughts:

1. The Key 200.4. Gotta be honest here, I have not gotten great results it. It took me over ten times to get the "auto setup" to work. I could not for the life of me get it to work with the gain on 0. I had to turn up the rear channels, likely because the unbalanced output from the HU. And the results, when it finally worked, was (to my ears) worse than the unmodified sound. When I have time, I am going to try to run the auto setup again. Of course, music, sound, it's all very subjective. Maybe to others they get great results. And maybe if i can get the auto EQ to work better, it will sound better But i have half a mind to return both amps, get a solid five channel amp and a cheap DSP and/or active line output converter, for the cost of those two amps. Or just say f-it and get a head unit, and an amp. What would i miss really, the Toyota apps? The sound is loud, way way better than stock, but not very clean, occasionally muddy and distorted. And since you cant manual an auto, it's hard to know how to fix it. Other than rewiring everything for bi-amp. Which I could do, but I've spent probably 20-30 hrs now tearing my brand new truck apart. Kinda don't feel like running more wire. I was eyeing the JBL 8 channel amp that comes with a DSP (like a true one you connect to a laptop) but of course you can't bridge the channels, so I couldn't run the sub w it. There's the Audio Control, but at that price I might as well buy a head unit and an average amp.


2. Speakers (Infinity reference): seem pretty straight. Hard to tell because it's just one link in the chain, but the components especially are much nicer than stock. Highs are clean, vocals and mids much sharper and fuller, and solid low end without a sub. I almost don't need a sub, but want one, and am getting one.

3. Key 500: Seem pretty powerful, and small. I can't really say until I get that subwoofer though. With the Kicker 8" it was pretty loud, though I don't think that sub/box is so great and it's 4 ohm. Hoping the Rockford Fosgate, which has dual 4 ohm voice coils I will run in parallel at 2 ohm, delivers.

4. Overall: I think I am getting a bit of interference, which I might try to remedy by sheilding/separating some wiring. Or it could just be the signal isn't very clean from the Toyota HU to the amp. I doubt its the amp or the wiring to the speakers or the speakers.

It was a huge job, basically two full weekends, though I did initially have the Key200 behind the dash and I moved it under the seat with the second Amp. I said I would take photos, but totally forgot too of course. Whoops. Any tips or experience with the Key is welcome, because I imagine lots of people here have done what I did.Maybe I am missing something.

 

Running both the 200.4 and 500.1 and can confirm the kicker key's are finicky and imo still don't sound as good as replacing the head unit. If you're on a budget you could send that 500.1 back and order this powered rockford 8" for about the same price. It will fit in the plastic bin.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575P3008P/Rockford-Fosgate-P300-8P.html

Subs are subs. Your head unit and speakers are what counts. Infinity like Focal are bright.

I'm willing to bet if you 1. swapped the head unit alone with factory speakers and perhaps added the rockford powered subwoofer or 2. swapped the head unit and kept the infinity speakers without the 200.4 or an amp you would be content for a while.

The factory head unit chokes everything and I'm ready to upgrade it myself.

I'm currently running Focal RSE-165, Focal RCX-165, 200.4, 500.1, JL Stealthbox.

edit: Secondskin Damplifier pro on inner doors and back cab wall too.

 

If I were to do it over I would choose 3 ways in the front (mids in dash, tweeters in sail panels, 6x9's in the doors) or at least 6x9 components up front, replace the head unit, proper amp of at least 75w rms and keep the JL Stealthbox.

 

Which JL sub do you have? I bought the same box and a 10tw3-d4 in an attempt to make a poor man's stealth box (still expensive in the end but not $1000). The driver's mounting diameter was too big and didn't fit but after sanding the inner diameter of the enclosure it fits quite well. Haven't installed it in the truck yet.

 

I am not sure what model it is, but I have a JL 10 inch sub in a ported box that I had in my old Camry and Corolla (this is my [counts fingers] sixth toyota). The sub itself is too think to fit in the bin, so no way would it fit in a box in the bin. I did install that Rockford Fosgate DVC 10 inch shallow mount sub and woah. It hits really really hard at 2 ohms with the Key500 in the Skar box. Like I had to turn the gain down because it was too-much-bass-annoy-people-in-traffic-hard. So i am definitely happy with the sub. And the sub amp seems good too, though $280 is still a lot for a basic monoblock putting out 300W @ 2 ohms.

One thing I have noticed is just an overall very muddy, almost distorted sound from the door speakers, mostly the 6x9s. It's also very bright and lacks midrange a bit (which might be the Infinitys, which I have heard are bright/sharp). But I am a little bit unsure what the distortion issue is. I have the gain down all the way on the Key200 to the fronts, but I almost feel like I am getting either a clipped or unclean signal. Unfortunately I am not really sure how I could test it. Would just disconnecting the speaker inputs and connecting a low voltage signal (say, like connected a pair of headphones to an phone or MP3 player, cutting off the earpieces and connecting the wires to the inputs) work? When I am using test tones, I don't hear the distortion (which I suppose is good). I am considering a Line Output Converter, but would rather not spend money if it's not going to help. Maybe it's just the way the stock stereo input sounds (which I am not sure why that would be).

Speaking of test tones, I cannot seem to set my gain without it getting so loud my ears bleed with the 1 kHz tone and sweep tones I've gotten. I feel like I am going to blow the speakers and make a lot of neighborhood dogs very unhappy. The manual says to set the volume to 75%, turn it up until the light comes on, then turn it down. That is very very loud. Anyone know a good method?

 

Set at 75% without the speakers connected…otherwise you may blow the speakers or your ears. I used a DD-1 Distortion detector…it’s a little expensive but it gave me a lot of confidence that my gains were set up properly. I used varying levels of gain overlap to dial in all my 5 channels. Because the midwoofer in my doors were firing low, I was able to dial it in with a tad more gain to blend naturally with the tweeters. Same for my sub. Now I really don’t need to touch the sub level on every song and my equalization is set completely flat. I have the subwoofer bass boost on my amp set at zero/off and still get plenty of bass.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ND3NDDF?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

Thanks for all the information/opinions you folks post. It’s helping me plan my next steps.. I was leaning toward the kicker key to improve sound quality and get more power to speakers— but sounds like its a PITA vs new HU. (Looking to get nav support AND car play $$$$ lol)

 

I followed the same arc. I initially wanted to keep the OEM HU and see if I could maximize the sonics with some smart/invisible tweaks but the more I weeded through all the posts and YouTube videos, I began to realize that it wasn’t that difficult to do myself and if I was going to the trouble of doing it myself, it would just be easier to start with a decent HU.

 

I also went with the kicker 10s and it didn't fit under my front seats (2016 TRD no power seats). So my local stereo shop took out my passenger backs eat panel and stuffed it in there. It was ok until I had one of my enthusiast friends sit in the back and say he couldn't even hear it. Sooo back to my stereo shop (which I should've just done in the first place for recommendations) and they recommended the JL audio 8" Powered Microsub. And Holy sh!t does it make a difference from the Kicker! Night and day. It fit perfectly behind the seat afyer removing the back plastic cover.

Just a PSA that this is a great alternative to going the Kicker route after racking my brains and doing research on countless posts here.

 

um, what does this mean? the sub acts as a direct short?

 

Ha! Typo my mistake. Nonetheless it slaps even behind the rear seat. Much more than the Kicker Hideaway 10". Night and day difference running on top of seperate kicker amp for the speakers. Really a great option within the slim pickings for subs for Tacoma's unless you get one of the custom fit boxes.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-GbVvsv78aU1/p_13693330/JL-Audio-ACP108LG-W3v3.html

 

So, another long update (and it's made me happy so many people contributed to this thread). I am in the process of returning both the Kicker Key 200.4 and Kicker Key 500.1. In the meantime, I just connected by Infinity References to the head unit, and it sounds the same/maybe better. I think (as Soundman told me and I didn't listen), the problem is basically that the Key can only do so much. I had the gain at zero, and I got clipping at certain frequencies with the volume at 75%. So, we will see if Crutchfield will honor my return. I figured that $560 would be better spent on a good LOC and standard amplifier. With that in mind, I plan(ned) on buying the following:
AudioControl LC2i PRO From what I can tell one of the best LOCs out there
Kicker 46CXA660.5T 5 channel class AB (4 ch 65 W @ 4 ohms) / D (sub ch 300 W @ 2 ohms) basic bitch amplifier

But then just today, I found a seller on Marketplace offering this new in the box for $450:
AudioControl LC-6.1200 6 channel (125 W @ 4 ohms) pretty bad ass amplifier (400 W bridged @ 4 ohms)

If it's legit, that will be pretty amazing, because there's no need for a LOC, or second amp, with more power. Only issue is my Rockford Fosgate 10 inch sub, which has dual 4-ohm voice coils. How they are now (in parallel), it's a 2 ohm impedance. So either I run them in series at 8 ohms (so 400 W bridged for 4 ohms would be _____ for 8 ohms) or I run two channels mono independently to each voice coil (so 125 @ 4 ohms x2), or I try to return my sub for a 4 ohm sub. I would love to hear what people have to say about Audio Control. The flexibility of that amp sounds kind of jaw dropping.

Side note: as is, I am enjoying the sound from my Reference component 6x9s/0.75"s and coaxial 6.5"s. However, they are very bright and seem to lack mids/midbass. Kind of bizarre really - I can play anything with an electronic/hip hop type of sound, and it's great. But if I put on rock, metal, etc. (which is mostly what I like), they sound odd/not so good, like a lot of the sound is just not there. Would it make sense to just replace the tweeter with a mid-tweeter? Change the crossover? Start over on the fronts?

 

I think you're over-stating the abilities of the audio control. It is only more manually capable than the kickers you're returning. It's automatic eq functionality is just as good. The only real advantage otherwise is to only need to run 1 amp for 4 speakers and a sub. Sound shaping wise, the key and and the lc are so close, they could be siblings.

A manual eq can be better, but can much more easily be much worse.

I think the component missing here isn't any brand or type of amp, but it's keeping the factory head unit that's still messing with everything with it's factory tuning. The tuning that the key or lc should have been able to mostly eq out.

"Garbage in, garbage out"

If you want a good audio signal to any amp, the first step is a quality aftermarket unit with preamp outputs.

 

If and when when you eventually get a new HU, those LOCs will be unnecessary. The LOCs are there to undo the sins that the OEM HU puts out. Why spend good money on 'corrections' from a substandard OEM HU?
I think your best bet is to get a decent HU. It's the shortest path to great sound because of the lack of that wacky EQ and its low level (RCA) outputs are 'cleaner' than hi level (speaker level) outputs.

Also, the many adjustments an aftermarket HU has for shaping the response of a subwoofer alone is amazing (inverse polarity, db level, crossover point, EQ, summed mono vs stereo). And you will get that level of control for all your speakers.

 

Man, talk about raining on a brother's parade haha...

In all seriousness though, i think (i know) you are both correct. I remember installing my first head unit and being amazed at how much better it sounded. I do think there is something to the notion that the Key cannot do everything: take a speaker level signal from four speakers, reduce it effectively to a pre-amp level, then reamplify it to 200 W, then listen to each channels frequencies, timing, and volume, then independently adjust each output to the tastes of every listener, at a quarter of the size of a standard car amplifier at a low price point. But overall, yes, i know from experience I will need a head unit for a true car audio set up - full stop. I'll still need an amp though, which I now have one that can power my vehicle at a higher wattage for 2/3 the price I originally spent. I would call that a win. And I imagine the LOC built in to it might help, since Audio Control is a go-to for that. Though, truth be told, I might have gotten the same results with the two Keys and a $20 passive LOC. And, as I said, I think the speakers are also playing a role, as many people - here and elsewhere - on the brightness of the Reference series. Anyway, it's all learning and doing at the end of the day, which I enjoy (I could have done the bare minimum, and be satisfied but know much less).

Now I just need a really good scratch-off (which I don't even buy), or a crisis at work that gets me overtime, and that new head unit will be mine.

 

I think it's quite possible to get a better output with just the Key, despite what I may have implied. It really depends on how picky you are, and only you know that. I misjudged the scale of my pickiness compared to my frugality. And sometimes, once you get into something, you (or I at least) want to take it all the way. But loads of people love the Key, which can literally fit behind the head unit, and are totally satisfied with that and maybe some aftermarket speakers.

 

Bit of an update. I installed the Audio Control LC-6-1200. Took a bit of tuning, and still needs some more fine tuning for occasional distortion, but wow. I cannot praise this amplifier enough. It processes the factory speaker inputs so cleanly, has such an absurd amount of power, is about the size of a chemistry textbook, and most of all is so incredible flexible. Six channels, which output 125 W for 4 ohms, 200 W for 2 ohms, or 400 W bridged for 4 ohm loads. Channels 1/2 have a high pass filter (but two different frequency ranges - 30 to 300, or 500 to 5000); 3/4 have a high pass, or band pass; and 5/6 have a low or high pass. All of the inputs can be combined, run mono or stereo, or it will sum two for the bass restore feature (have not found this necessary in the Tacoma as I do not think the head unit lowers bass output at higher volumes, but would be great for vehicles that do). So currently I have it in a basic five channel setup, but I could just run the fronts and be able to fine tune the tweeter crossovers while having both a high and low crossover for the woofers, and then run a sub. Or i could run all six channels to the dash/door speakers, and add another sub amp because it has a pre-amp output. Or or or. My sub is a Rockford Fosgate with dual voice coils that can be either 2 or 8 ohms (not ideal as I would like to bridge 5/6 and that can only work with 4 ohms). I'm running it mono off just one channel and getting 200 w to it, and the bass is clean and strong. I know I should be able to bridge it to the sub if I wire it in series for 8 ohm. But i asked Audio Control if higher impedances were okay, and have not heard back and don't want to risk damaging anything.

All of the problems with the Infinity References have pretty vanished with the cleaner signal processing, better/more flexible crossovers, and the additional power. Was listening to Tool and Mastodon today, and it screams at half volume. This amp will probably make me deaf. Anyway, I know that's a lot of fan-boyism to be heaped on a product, but if I knew how well it would perform, I'd have been willing to shell out the $900 full price (or maybe buy the even pricier DSP version). As it was, I got it for half that from some poor couple that wrecked their truck before they could install it. Maybe next Christmas I'll ask for head unit contributions, but for now I am very happy with it. Especially when a quality head unit is at least a grand. Seems like opinions are mixed on the Joying? Which looks like the most affordable option to keep functionality. Everything else - Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine - necessitate very expensive modules and higher end receivers to keep steering controls, USB input, compass, microphone, screen size, etc. I don't care about Toyota apps or factory nav, but some things I'd rather not lose. Granted, it's a computer - not just a deck like in the old days, so I understand to an extent. Still a lot of money though.