Autism and gun ownership (Another one of PennSilverTaco's BS threads)

So what brand is the pistol? Browning Buckmark?

 

Depends on what you're doing, advantages and disadvantages to both but buckshot is the most common defensive round for shotguns- traditionally 00 buck but there are other sizes as well. Despite the undying gunshop and internet myths, birdshot is a horrible choice for defensive use.

Shotguns in the defensive role are also one of the hardest guns to "run" well but they can be devastating. I would very strongly encourage you to take a defensive shotgun course if you want to learn how to effectively employ one.

 

Two things I'm glad I learned how to do; Drive a stick shift and use a gun!

 

depends on the caliber. I havent looked in a while. Also havent really shot much other than .22 in a while. 12ga is a great round imo

 

This^^^ I bought some cheesy MagPul videos about 10 years ago and one was how to run a shotgun. Waded past the range cheese and took notes on the 870 as I had only one at that time. The Remington 870 has the best options for pump. I now have three shorties that operate the same and one has a red dot.

The underground tunnel scene in that John Wick is a good example of defensive and offensive quick loading of a shotgun. Although he was running an auto the theory carries over.

 

There are several states that don’t allow deer hunting with a high powered rifle. I live in one such state, Illinois, so our choices are muzzle loaders or shotguns with slugs. As far as using shotguns for self defense, I wouldn’t recommend slugs but, 00 buckshot instead.

 

A single slug is approximately .725”. 00 buckshot is 8 pellets at approximately .33” each. The more holes, the more rapid the exsanguination.

 

Be sure to pattern that shotgun as well. In close quarters such as home defense, it's a myth to think the pattern covers the hallway. Reality is, at ~20' it might only be 4-5". While a slide racking back IS intimidating, I prefer a pistol. Easier to maintain physical control in close quarters.

 

No. Slugs are actually a poor choice for self defense and especially home defense. Slugs have more penetration than 00 buck shot and will go through more walls and even through a neighbor’s exterior walls. You have a higher chance of shooting someone in your house or in a neighbors house using slugs. In addition for accuracy with slugs you are better off if you aim not just point. With buckshot you just point and fire. Even if you are off at least part of the pattern will likely hit the target.
Both slugs and buckshot are very lethal rounds. Where I live you can’t hunt with slugs. But when I’m out of state in grizzly bear country for self defense I carry a 12 gauge loaded with alternating buckshot and slugs. Buckshot/slug/buckshot/slug and so on.
A 410 or 20 gauge is also very effective for home defense with buckshot.

 

Tell me you've never patterned a shotgun without telling me you've never patterned a shotgun. You absolutely do have to aim with a shotgun, especially at short ranges where you are not going to much of a pellet spread. You need to pattern your particular gun with the loads you have and see at what point they start opening up and how many pellets you are getting on target- depending on your barrel/choke and load you may well be able to cover the spread with your palm at say seven yards. Example, cheap Winchester military 00 buck from a home chopped 18" cylinder bore is going to open up a lot sooner than a choked gun shooting eight pellet Federal Flite Control 00.

There are videos on youtube where you can see plenty of folks demonstrating this but again, you need to check your ammo in your particular gun at different ranges as each is going to be different.

 

I’ve been waterfowl and pheasant hunting for 50 years with shotguns. I’ve shot hundreds of rounds of trap, skeet and sporting clays. I’ve patterned dozens and dozens of shot guns. I used/ fired a shotgun in the line of duty many years ago. I know of what I speak. For home defense you’re generally dealing with shots of 20 feet or less. Patterning a shotgun with 00 buck at distances of 10 to 20 feet is a total waste of time. The only choke you want for buckshot at close range is cylinder/skeet.
If you shoot beyond 20 feet which is unlikely inside a dwelling then maybe you should pattern the gun and specific ammo you plan to use.
And when you’re in close proximity in a life/death situation, you’ve got a second to fire and your scared shitless and the adrenaline is pumping, unless you are a highly trained professional you ain’t aiming, you’re pointing and firing. Because things happen quickly and suddenly you point not aim a shotgun. This especially applys to duck and upland hunting/shooting also. The pointing technique is generally referred to as instinctive shooting.
Lastly for home defense a person is probably better off using 0 or 1 rather than 00. You get a little better spread and still excellent lethality.
I don’t use YouTube for shotgun shooting information. A lot of crap on there by people who don’t know shit. I could make my own shooting videos.

 

Blah, blah, blah. I've been hunting with and shooting shotguns almost as long, understand instinctive/wingshooting, have dealt with gunshot wounds over the years including various shotgun loads, etc. If you've actually patterned your gun(s) then you know that at the distance within the typical American home, depending on your gun and ammo choice (as I stated), you can get anything from a single hole to a pattern about the size of a man's palm- either of which is still small enough to easily miss, especially while under stress. I won't argue shot size as I prefer #1 myself, I used 00 as an example since it's the most common size.

Given the OP's post, they are obviously a novice and not likely to know these things and thus actually shooting their own gun and ammo would give them this information.

Telling someone to grab a shotgun and point and shoot towards the target is not good info, you are still responsible for every pellet that leaves that barrel and shotgun pellets tend to penetrate much more than most folks realize. A better idea would have been, telling them that cheap buckshot out of a cylinder bore gun will have a larger pattern and thus a greater hit probability while more expensive plated hunting buckshot through even a mildly choked barrel (the typical hunting shotgun) will have a much tighter pattern and will likely only produce one large hole at shorter distances. Measure the longest possible shot in your own house, figure out what's on the other side of walls between you and that possible target, i.e. a child's bedroom with the bed against the interior wall, and choose a round that has the greatest likelihood of putting all of the pellets on target without stray pellets. Understand that load actually has to hit the target, not just be sprayed down the hallway like a gangbanger doing a drive-by. As much as I enjoy shotguns (especially 20ga these days), a rifle is actually a better choice for most folks for home defense.

There is certainly no shortage of retards on youtube, if you can produce quality videos to correct them then by all means please do so- the youtube comment was so that the OP could get a quick easy look at what patterning is, the typical results (provide a starting point so he's not wasting a lot of ammo) and how he can apply those results to his own situation. Just for fun though, I'll give you a link with another old guy shooting a load of Flight Control #1 buck through a cylinder bore gun, essentially what you've recommended with the addition of the Flight Control. At 20yds (I certainly don't own a mansion) you can still cover that group with your hand- it's a great hunting and defensive round, easily keeping all pellets on the target, but you have to hit your target.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-56-federal-flight-control-1-buckshot/

 

Nice Charlie.

 

Blah blah blah back at ya. We’ll just have to disagree. You can pattern your shotgun and load all day long but in a home defense short distance situation it won’t make a bit of difference. We’re talking 20’ not 20 yards (60 feet). But you missed the point. My original response was about using buckshot vs. slugs for home defense and why the op should use buck not slugs. Remember too some short barrel home defense shotguns have pistol grips. Patterning ain’t going to help you with that and good luck with aiming those. You went off on a tangent about aiming and pointing a shotgun which I really don’t think you understand and then went into patterning. I’ll just go with my experience, knowledge and training and you can go with your YouTube. We just disagree. I hope the op takes a home defense course and gets some training and doesn’t rely on internet strangers with unknown credentials to make his decisions.

 

From the hip I can make a milk jug dance all over the backyard. Handles better like that than up chest high. I have a couple others with conventional shoulder stocks but as for wielding in an urban setting this would be my go to. Full open choke door breacher bringing barrel punching fury. Even with that choke it’ll pattern about 18-24” out at 10-15 yards. Inside a home it would be a lot tighter group but definitely larger than a single projectile weapon. Even if they were close enough to make just a fist size gaping hole the powder burns would deter most. LOL. Nevertheless I wouldn’t run to it for an intruder unless I was in that room. I’d just grab what I have placed in whatever particular room I was in at the time.

 

I bought a Remington 870 Police 12 Gauge, 18 inch barrel shotgun on Friday Mar 13, 2020. The state purchased them then decided not to use them.

Picked it up for $483. I passed the background check which took more than usual time (according to the sales person).

I bought 00 buck rounds at Walmart before they took them off the shelves.

Local firing range does not allow firing unless you use slugs.

My experience with weapons come from military background. I've qualified on the M-16/M-4 and the M9 handgun.

I'm not familiar with firing a shotgun but definitely will take some training before I fire it.

Interesting perspective here...especially about bird-shot not being much of home protection.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

Firearms threads are like oil change threads.
Better to just stay out of them.