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AUTO LSD (or Not) for added traction in 2WD?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas' started by David K, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Mar 15, 2013 at 1:45 PM
    #121
    BlueT

    BlueT Well-Known Member

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    I moded 1999 Taco so much it had turned to Land Cruiser
    Maybe you should spend more time wrenching in garage to actually know what you talking about.
    First Toyota ditched mechanical LSD for cost cutting (electronics are manufactured in China for dimes) Mechanical LSD we had is still manufactured in Hino for their large trucks.
    Second. VSC system you have is common Bosch made for passenger cars. ATRAC is additional code with relocated pump. So yes its "Mall future"
    Third: Brakes slow down the wheel, true but strain is on everything else. If you hammers gears long enough you will split R&P, bend something or simply eat splines. Everytime truck applies the brakes other parts gets hammered to move load to other side. Thats how it works. Thats how people break their axles and their CV's.
     
  2. Mar 16, 2013 at 12:00 AM
    #122
    David K

    David K [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Ok amigo... no flexing with you on the future here.

    If there was no such thing as A-TRAC then I would order the front locker if it could be obtained by the dealer, otherwise, ARB, right? It is just so sweet A-TRAC does work off road, and we don't pay more for it than we did for an Off Road TRD before it had that tricky device!

    Now have fun!
     
  3. Mar 16, 2013 at 8:55 AM
    #123
    FIRESTARTER

    FIRESTARTER Member

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    A Trac works excellent

    It's extremely sensitive and allows great maneuvering.

    But now you're diverting torque across gears that is magnified from low range.

    But since you're moving at a crawl I believe it helps a lot more than auto lsd. Since your car is not utilizing wheel speed and power. It's too crawl over things.

    These trucks aren't Rubicon's. So let's stop thinking they're.

    Low range rear locked is extremely good traction. I only use atrac on sand covered rocks. Where a locker would stress the tiny 8 inch diff going from high to low to high traction.
     
  4. Mar 16, 2013 at 9:24 AM
    #124
    FIRESTARTER

    FIRESTARTER Member

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    so if i follow you correctly the sport doesn't have stabilitrac because it has a posi? actually asking not sarcastic.

    no, a well set up posi only makes the tires spin at the same rate off road. but in high traction situations it will allow individual wheels to rotate faster for turning. so traction control can still be in place and working

    its not ONE OR THE OTHER... But I understand you saying you would rather have electronic over mechanical if asked. But my old high hp twin turbo cummins didn't have traction control and would spin its posi dana 80 getting onto the freeway. I never once thought trac would be nice

    btw, abs sucks off road, where sometimes you need to lock the tires to dig in and stop faster (terrain dependent)

    and you're disregarding the fact that a brake system doesn't solve the problem with an open diff. power flows through the path of least resistance. so you have to brake a wheel hard enough to make the other wheel have equal or less traction (less traction is way more likely) so you're just throwing torque left and right and not splitting it to both wheels equally. which a clutch pack or gears or mechanical locker can do.

    but in ice, having one wheel spin instead of two is better, you sway around far less.

    so you may be correct if you're trying to state no system has no downfalls

    but for this threads sake, auto lsd is a cheap gimmick that can't match the off road performance of a true lsd.

    and I don't allow any vehicle stability control on my vehicles off road, it has never saved me, only compounded problems.

    moggie? the mercedes unimog?

    in a differential, you have gears called spider gears that allow the axle shafts to spin in opposite directions... it sits inside a unit that houses it and is connected to a ring gear which is spun in one direction via a pinon (driven directly from the driveshaft). when wheel spin occurs, one shaft stays still, while the until spins around it, the spider gears will now do there thing and let the other shaft spin in the OPPOSITE direction which is forward.

    imagine all that coming to an abrupt halt, and all the power must be transmitted through the spider gears, for thats where the power is transmitted via when you have wheel spin.

    a posi, its a clutch pack and springs that sits inside the spider gears and pushs against everything to attempt to make them spin together, or resist spinning away from each other.

    auto lsd can get you unstuck, it tries to use the best wheels higher friction coefficient. but can't use both wheels in tandem like a true lsd

    the braking system on any car would not need to be beefed up. stopping a car 4000lbs at 100mph would incur exponential amounts of heat than slowing a spinning wheel.

    they may have, but it is unnecessary to do so.

    and you're skipping the inherent problem that these systems can compromise your axles longevity.

    its cheap, a true lsd will stress the strong parts of your axle, but auto lsd directly stresses the biggest weakness which is the spider gears, they are physically much smaller and when wheel spin is occurring they can't stress the center section enough to alleviate there own stress and will break prematurely.

    this is what typically breaks when people do 1 wheel wonder burn outs.

    when you have equal traction, the spider gears lock the axles together and the center section will propel you, and when one wheel losses traction, the spider gears will start to spin.


    i would rather replace a clutch pack than the internal gears of my diff because I wanted a cheap and effective auto lsd


    look at this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIGvhvOhLHU

     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  5. Mar 16, 2013 at 11:57 AM
    #125
    David K

    David K [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the time you spent adding your detailed post.

    The only comment to yours is that it would be a gimmick IF it didn't work. The truth is we don't have limited slip inside a differential or a front locker offered, so without going after-market, the reality is TRAC, AUTO LSD, and A-TRAC is what Toyota installs now. My hope is everyone who has any or all of these Toyota features will know how to use them and that those who don't (yet) have them, stop bad mouthing them as if we newer Toyota owners have a choice in what the factory installs.

    Is Nissan, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, or other mid size truck companies where you will go instead of having a TRAC/AUTO LSD/A-TRAC equipped truck?

    I think all vehicles now have some form of TRAC and VSC... as it has proven (or convinced) those in charge that VSC is the next best thing to seat belts for safety.

    A-TRAC adds so much more to the standard 4WD Low Range, that I seriously can't imagine anytime I would be in L4 without the A-TRAC on standby. If you don't want it controlling spin until you are stuck or almost stuck, then engage the rear locker... that way, A-TRAC will not operate until you are under 3 MPH! In other words, conditions have halted you from moving forward over 2 MPH. A-TRAC comes alive and turns the front tires into useful traction grabbers instead of one tire spinning freely.

    Again, thank you Jordan!
     
  6. Jun 20, 2013 at 11:49 PM
    #126
    SuazoYota

    SuazoYota Well-Known Member

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    Gotta 09 Reg. Cab Prerunner and i would be stuck a lot more often if it wasn't for Auto LSD.
    I've gone to Ocotillo Wells and was stuck once due to not enough momentum in super soft sand and the fact i didn't know where the trail went. Here's a pic of that stuck:[​IMG]
    Took my truck to Otay Mountain truck trail a few months back and went on a side road that was clearly not meant for my 2WD and started spinning my tires going up hill, one push of a button and up and over she went with not that much more of effort.
    Also took it out to TDS this last March and was goin all over the place out there in Truck Haven. Got hot headed and wanted to do some blind climbing and didn't notice how this hill was shaped more like a triangle and got high centered. Got out of that by Auto LSD doing its job and airing the tires down more to 15psi and some help by a few rocks around the tire. Heres a few photos of that:[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    and me off triangle-high-center-hill:
    [​IMG]
    i know its not a 4wd but every now and then its got the attitude of one.
    Oh and David K, you've been extremely informative every time you speak up about a subject! Keep it up i need to learn more! Those trips you take down to Baja look like a blast and a piece of heaven
     
  7. Jun 21, 2013 at 12:16 AM
    #127
    DoorDing

    DoorDing Thank you, Nancy Roman

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  8. Jun 21, 2013 at 12:26 AM
    #128
    SuazoYota

    SuazoYota Well-Known Member

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    yea i read that one about a month or 2 after i got stuck! dummy me probably will do it again and get stuck again tho:eek:
     
  9. Jun 22, 2013 at 9:20 AM
    #129
    David K

    David K [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Good post Spencer! Thank you!!
     
  10. Feb 15, 2014 at 8:31 AM
    #130
    RedHusky

    RedHusky Procedural Deviant

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    Yes. Here in VA just got what for us is a bunch of snow, 8+". 13 PreRunner TRD Sport. Was following a friend (in an FJ 4x4) on unplowed streets covered with a few inches, fishtailing a bit on level road, then headed up a hill. Halfway up the rear came around a bit on me and I lost all momentum. Couldn't get going, turned on ALSD (first time ever), and then it dug for a second and got traction. Motored right up the hill.
     
  11. Feb 15, 2014 at 9:07 AM
    #131
    Marcoc

    Marcoc Well-Known Member

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    I tried Auto-LSD the other day in deep snow here in CT after a large snow storm. I jammed the truck into a snow bank in front of my house. I was in 2wd, swithed VSC off, and Auto-LSD on to see what it would do in 2wd. Well to my amazment with the added aid of my Duratracs the truck spun its way out pretty easily. I will be using this more often when hauling my snow blower to the parents house in slushy conditions, under 30mph, and in 2wd. Learning what Toyotas traction aids do is interesting. Too bad so many poeple dont realize 4wd Toyotas (tacomas) have these choices.
     
  12. Feb 15, 2014 at 9:13 AM
    #132
    Marcoc

    Marcoc Well-Known Member

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    Out here in the NE when I do any trail driving that may get nasty that requires 4LO i make sure TRAC is active. It works so good in all conditions. I think I used my locker twice to get out of an extremly deep mud hole and to pull out a stuck full-size chevy truck from a snow bank with great success. Trac works awesome and so does the Auto-LSD in 2wd
     
  13. Feb 17, 2014 at 9:10 AM
    #133
    David K

    David K [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, for the others...

    When AUTO LSD is ON, the VSC goes OFF under 30 mph. They are not controlled separately.

    In L4, there is A-TRAC (Active Traction Control)... which is a whole level different than TRAC (or the 4 Lo Trac Mod for those without an Off Road TRD).

    TRAC and AUTO LSD is limited slip and A-TRAC is almost like lockers, but is automatic so steering is not affected.

    In 2012, TRAC in H4 comes in 2 levels: TRAC and TRAC OFF. TRAC OFF is like AUTO LSD, but on all 4 corners.
     
  14. Jul 6, 2014 at 11:11 AM
    #134
    jackbower6864

    jackbower6864 Member

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  15. Jul 9, 2014 at 5:45 PM
    #135
    David K

    David K [OP] Well-Known Member

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    You video does not work (removed by user?).

    Only 2005-2008 SPORT TRDs had a mechanical limited slip rear differential (requiring oil modifier). ALL Tacomas from 2009 + have open differentials as the limited slip is created by on board computer using spin sensors and the ABS brake system.
     
  16. Jul 9, 2014 at 7:21 PM
    #136
    jboudreaux1965

    jboudreaux1965 ragin cajun

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  17. Jul 10, 2014 at 4:15 PM
    #137
    David K

    David K [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I understand your fears... a round earth that wasn't the center of the universe was also hard to accept for many years! ;)
     
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