Bad clutch fingers or throw out bearing

Hello All

I'm back with another issue that is way over my head. I could definitely use some sound advice. NOTE: I don't understand half of what the mechanics have told me about this problem, so anywhere you see "quotation marks", thats me saying I dont have any idea what I am talking about.

First, my truck:

1998 Tacoma TRD(SR5), 4x4 V6 5-speed manual, 104K miles

Next, the issue: Two months ago my clutch went sour and I had a new clutch installed. A few weeks ago I started hearing a high-pitched chirping noise which goes away whenever I depress the clutch pedal, and comes back when I release the clutch pedal. Before returning to the original mechanic who installed the clutch, I went to the dealer to hear their opinion. They say the "throw out bearing" is bad and needs to be replaced. Then I went to the original mechanic and they said that the "clutch fingers" are not properly aligned, so they are interacting weirdly with the throwout bearing. They say the clutch finger problem is a manufacturer defect (not an install error), and to fix the problem I need a whole new clutch.

The clutch is under warranty (I havent even driven it 3000 miles), so if I wanted to I could get the whole thing replaced. But since its been two months, the mechanic won't cover the labor. They want $400 to put in a new clutch. Needless to say I think thats absurd: if a part warranted for a year or 100k miles goes bad in two months/3k miles, I'm not prepared to pay a penny more for the part or the labor (although i totally understand why the mechanic doesnt want to cover it, and, really, why should they if its not their fault the part failed?).

Its worth pointing out that the mechanic said, "if it were me, I'd just drive it and ignore it. Its not worth $400, it wont cause any long term damage or catastrophic failures, and it might even go away on its own".

My main question is: Is he correct? What are the long term consequences of either a bad throwout bearing or "misaligned" clutch fingers? is it worth the $400 to have the clutch replaced, or, more importantly, is it worth the headache of taking on the part manufacturer, trying to get them to pony up and pay for the labor? Is it worth the fight, and would anything actually come of it?

In other words: what would you do? Would you fight to have the clutch replaced without any cost on your part, or would you just forget about it and live with the chirp?

I have searched these forums, and although I haven't found any info specific to first gen. tacos, I have read that throwout bearing failure is a recurring problem in second gens, and that a bad throwout bearing somehow leads to damage of other parts (like the "pilot shaft") because the bearing is steel and other parts are aluminum. Does that hold true for first gens?

Any thoughts you have are much appreciated. This forum is awesome!

Thanks!

 

Did you purchase the clutch or did the garage that installed it purchase the clutch ?

You should have minimum 90 days warrantee on the clutch kit . This includes the clutch release bearing .

Clutch fingers are adjusted at the time of install .
Is there any free play at the top of the pedal ?
Grab the pedal with your hand and see if you can lift the pedal up .
These clutches need to be adjusted properly . If the release bearing is making noise , chances are the clutch wasnt adjusted with free play in mind .

 

Here is a guy with similar issues and going through somewhat the same thing .
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1s...t-bearing-issues-please-help.html#post8975860


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gearcruncher, thanks for the reply.

The clutch was purchased by the mechanic, so the warranty is technically theirs. the clutch kit is covered for a year or 100k miles. But the LABOR warranty from the mechanic is only 30 days, which isnt in writing anywhere and was never explained to me.

As far as freeplay is concerned, there is a very, very tiny amount of free play. When I depress the clutch pedal and then release it, it comes pretty much all the way back, but the "shaft" of the pedal sort of rests on the "little white button", rather than pushing it in. If i give the back of the pedal a little tug with the top of my foot, it comes all the way back. I don't know if that tiny amount of freeplay could cause the problem (i dont even know if that counts as freeplay). what do you think?

So are you suggesting that the clutch finger problem is the mechanics error, not a manufacturing defect?

 

Yes , the warranty is theirs and they are responsible .
Yes , the fingers on the pressure plate are adjusted at the time of install .
Here is the adjustment procedure http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old...6toyrm/06toypdf/06rmsrc/rm2006ta/02900510.pdf

These release bearings do " NOT " turn all the time . They are semi centrifical , not fully centrifical like they are on a self adjusting clutch .
Did you have the flywheel turned down and pilot bearing replaced ?

 

The problem here lies is what warranty is offered. There is unfortunately no "law" that states a mechanic HAS to warranty his work. So it will go back to what warranty is offered by the shop/mechanic. Look at your paperwork. (Hopefully you were given a receipt that specifies any warranty offered on parts, or labor)

I would ask where he got the parts from. For example at my shop any parts I sell to customers (and install at my shop) from Advance Auto, have a 90 day labor warranty covered by Advance. Some other parts places cover labor for specified time periods. Some of course don't. (For example if you walk in and buy the clutch and install it yourself, and the clutch were to fail, Advance is not going to reimburse you for labor time)

This is one of the reason I always emphasize to people about getting all the information you can, including parts AND labor warranty. Your mechanic is right in that if the part fails, he can't (and shouldn't) be held liable for the labor portion of the replacement. However if the parts were improperly installed, then you would have a workmanship liability claim. It is a hard sell since we do not know the shop, or the mechanic in question. Here at my shop I offer a 12/12 warranty on all workmanship issues. Any decent shop should offer the same.

 

Thanks gearcruncher. I understand most of what you are saying. but let me ask a few questions:

are you saying that, if the freeplay adjustment had been done correctly, then the release bearing would NEVER be turning when the clutch pedal is in resting position? Therefore the fact that I hear the chirping noise ONLY when the clutch pedal is resting (and it goes away when I depress the pedal) is evidence that the freeplay is improperly adjusted? I believe it, but I find it kind of surprising, since BOTH the dealer AND the original mechanic seemed to think that chiriping at pedal resting position and silence when the pedal is depressed is a reliable sign of release bearing/clutch finger problems, and NEITHER of them said anything like "well, yes, its chirping, but the release bearing shouldnt even be turning right now..."

I'm sorry but I don't know what i means to "turn down the fly wheel"... They "resurfaced" the flywheel, i know that... As for the pilot bearing, I'm not sure if that was replaced. Its not on the work order, but if its part of a standard clutch kit, then yes it was done. I'll call and ask... how does the pilot bearing come into play in this specific problem?

Another question: if the freeplay adjustment is the problem, then can I have that adjusted and expect the chirping to go away? Or is the problem too far gone at this point?

Also, you say "the fingers on the pressure plate are adjusted at the time of install", but the link you gave me is for the clutch pedal freeplay adjustment. So, does that mean that the "clutch finger adjustment" isn't actually something the mechanic does to the clutch fingers themselves, but just the pedal adjustment?? I ask because the mechanic said that the clutch fingers themselves were defective, implying that any sort of adjustment wasn't the solution...

Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate the help! i'm a total newb, obviously... I can use all the help I can get!

 

When the clutch pedal is not depressed, the TOB is not in play. It should be doing nothing except riding on the transmission input shaft. Most of the time, TOB exhibits a problem by squealing like a stuck pig when the clutch is depressed (i.e. it is taking the load of the clutch springs and the throw out bearings are hot and angry from lack of lube).

"turn down the flywheel" means resurfacing.

I would ask the garage if they adjusted the free play in the clutch pedal. If not, I'd ask them to do so. If it goes away, it goes away. If not, then back to square one.

 

If I had a warranty issue with a clutch I purchased for my customer , I am going back to my clutch supplier for a complete warranty of the clutch plus book labor to remove and replace the clutch . This was always a battle , but my customers never got the short end of the stick . There were times when my clutch supplier would offer me large discounts on other parts or they would simply send me to the clutch manufacturer and do battle with them
Here is the pressure plate adjustment procedure that is to be done at the time of install but good luck proving that the mechanic did or didnt do it after 2 months . Look at step 2 http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old...6toyrm/06toypdf/06rmsrc/rm2006ta/02901310.pdf

I would suggest another professional opinion before taking the matter further .Its tough diagnosing sounds over a keyboard , however , I would also bet that the release bearing is guilty of making the noise .

The pilot bearing doesnt come into play in your situation ,but its part of doing a clutch job properly just as turning down or resurfacing the flywheel is also very important . The reason I asked was to confirm that everything was in accordance to what the clutch manufacturer stipulates in order for the clutch job to qualify for warrantee . It is very easy to tell when someone skips a step in a procedure and then try to claim warranty for a job done incorrectly

 

Thanks again gear cruncher. I am waiting for a call back from the mechanic. I'll report back here after I learn more...

 

Update: I took the truck back to the mechanic and they adjusted to clutch pedal free play. No chirping on the hour-long drive home. But that doesnt say much because the chirping tends to come and go. If I don't hear it for a week, I'll be more confident.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

Update: I took the truck back to the mechanic and they adjusted to clutch pedal free play. No chirping on the hour-long drive home. But that doesnt say much because the chirping tends to come and go. If I don't hear it for a week, I'll be more confident.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

Sub'd that other topic with the same issue gearcruncher posted is mine. I've been trying to figure out what's going on but hearing that it is just lacking adjustment would be good to hear (although I already pulled my transmission so I might as well replace to TOB)

Please keep me updated as the week continues as to if the noise stays away, I would greatly appreciate it! If you don't want to spam your topic with it I wouldn't mind if you PM me in the next couple days to see if it stays away.

 

Hey guys , keep in mind that the free play goes away as the clutch disc wears in , With this said ,your pressure plate loading strength increases but you will need to continously monitor that free play or the release bearing wears out prematurely .
I am happy to hear the mechanic was able to get the noise to go away with a simple adjustment as its always a battle for everybody involved when warrantee questions pop up so soon .

 

So here is my update:

The clutch pedal freeplay adjustment seems to have CHANGED the problem, rather than solve it outright. The clutch no longer chirps when the pedal is in released position while idling or driving. Instead, it now squeals when I release the pedal going into first gear or reverse, from a dead stop.

I'm about to take on the parts dealer, or maybe the manufacturer, but the problem is the labor warranty was only for 30 days. The part is covered, but I don't see how I will be able to convince anyone to cough up hundreds of dollars for the labor, though I don't feel I should have to pay another penny for this shitty clutch...

 

For what its worth , double check the free play adjustment to make sure it was done correctly . He may have set the free play too close to the release bearing . With this said , the bearing could still come into contact with the release fingers and make the odd noise .

 

Does it make the noise with the motor off,, it may be the usual squeaky pedal bushing?

See here: http://www.lieblweb.com/clutchbushing.html

 

So I checked the clutch pedal freeplay myself and it is within spec.

I made a video so y'all could hear the squealing sound. you have to crank the volume up real loud to hear it, but keep in mind if you were in the driver's seat you could hear it just fine; its very noticeable.

http://youtu.be/hHVkN5-RaF4

Notice that there is no longer any chirping when my foot is OFF the pedal: Adjusting the freeplay fixed that. BUT NOW the chirping begins at the point after I move the pedal past the freeplay, about a half inch push on the pedal. I could hold the pedal in that position and keep it chirping all day. But then the squeal disappears when the pedal is totally depressed.

ALSO, i dont think you can hear it on the video, but there is another squeal when I release the pedal after pressing it all the way in. It is a different squeal than the first one: it is more muffled and higher pitched.

And then of course it also squeals going from a dead stop into first gear or reverse.

So I am thinking this problem isnt fixed. The big question now is: would the problem have been avoided is the mechanic had set the freeplay properly to begin with? Could a month of driving around with no pedal freeplay lead to this chirping/squealing problem?

Also, a big question that I asked earlier that is worth returning to: what if I just don't do anything? What are the long-term consequences of a chirping TOB? The mechanic suggested I ignore it. What do you think? I mean, I never have any reason to press the pedal in a half-inch and leave it there, so I don't really hear the chirping noise while driving normally. The only thing I hear that still bothers me is the squeal when I release the pedal going into first gear or reverse.

 

What did you end up doing OP? I feel like I am hearing a similar noise but louder.

 

I'm going to tell you what solved this problem for me, I got the idea after reading about a similar issue on a scion forum. (I don't have my tacoma anymore, but doing this fixed the issue for about 4 months before I sold it)

So if you look under the truck on the drivers side at the front of the transmission you will see the slave cylinder - it has a brake line going to it and the back is covered by a rubber dust boot - peal back the dust boot to reveal the contact point between the piston on the slave cylinder and the clutch fork. Push the clutch fork towards the back of the truck slightly (it will be kind of hard, you're pushing against the clutch fingers) and apply a decent bit of grease in the dimple that the piston fits into.

On my tacoma this fixed the problem, I can't guarantee this will work for you, but it takes about 2 minutes and it worked for me. A lot of shops forget to apply grease in this spot, and the resultant metal on metal contact causes a chirping noise due to what I believe is feed back from the input shaft.

Edit: if your clutch is squealing you probably want to get it adjusted back to the point where it is just chirping, because on a new clutch I'd have to guess it'd be way out of adjustment to squeal or that the shop didn't put any grease on the input shaft.

Also I should add that I'm not a professional mechanic, this is just what I've learned from experience, so take that for what you must.