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Balancing Advice please

Discussion in 'Wheels & Tires' started by Newlife, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So I took my truck in for a slight shudder and noise today. I Figured I would have the balance checked first since I feel it in the floor and steering wheel the most. I drop it off and they call me to come take a look, I see a strip of weights had been slung off the wheel and one of the weights had hit my caliper and stuck. Noise found and most likely the shudder. Drove it to the dealership so my fiance could buy her new car and took her with me. Everything was fine. Left the dealership alone and her behind me in her new car and at around 50 the steering wheel started shaking so bad I pulled over almost scared my wheels were falling off. I couldn't tell anything wrong so I got back on the road. Got up to 50 again and same thing, slowed down below 50 and it went away almost completely. Drove home doing 40mph for 20 miles.


    I got home and raised the front, started shaking the crap out of each tire and no play. Checked all the lug nuts and they were tight. Then decided to check for a bearing issue or rack issue. Took off both front tires and when I went to lay the tires down I noticed this.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The shop double stacked weights on the inside of my passenger front wheel.

    I don't know that much about weights but I'm sure they shouldn't be stacked right?

    And if this isn't my horrible issue what else should I check? I am at a lost with this and very nervous about driving the truck now.
    Any help is much appreciated.

    Also I have had these wheels since November of last year and no issues like this. It was only after putting the new lift on and the bigger tires 2 weeks ago. So I don't think the wheel is bent. And this is the same shop I have used for years and I would hate to know they don't know what they are doing or have a new tech that doesn't know what he is doing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  2. dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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    Double stacking weights isn't ideal. With that said, for some tire/wheel combinations, it beats the alternative of having a solid strip of weight covering a large diameter of the wheel. The wheels look to have been dynamically balanced (this is good). The amount of the weight they put on the rims isn't atrocious, either. Looks to be 3 ounces on the inside, 2 on the outside. A bit heavy, but nothing to be concerned about, and certainly not something to give you the trouble you're having.

    Everything that you're describing is absolutely a balance issue. Have them rebalance your rims. Something's wrong. If they insist it's correct, have them check for a tread separation. It certainly would not be the first time I've seen a Grabber AT2 separate.
     
  3. Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    Double stacking weights is a 'lazy' mans way to balance a tire. Take the truck back and complain......that's ridiculous. Whoever did that, probably screwed up the balance altogether.

    I would force them to remove ALL WEIGHTS from the wheels and start all over again.

    And as a double-check..... I've had a shop take the tire off the machine, rotate it 180 degrees and put it back on the machine and spin it again.

    After all that... and you're still having problems... You might want to rotate the tires to see if the vibration changes position and/or you can pinpoint the problem to ONE wheel.

    And yes....a bent wheel can cause a vibration. I had a bent wheel on my jeep that caused a vibe at 60mph. I jacked the jeep up and made a 'redneck' dial indicator (WD40 spray can with red straw) to check for bent wheels. And yes...I found a wheel that as off 1/8" out of round/bent.

    I've also had a friend who bought new tires and one of them was actually a 'bad tire' -something about the internals had separated.

    Good Luck!
     
  4. dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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    It's actually not lazy. These are tape weights. Double stacking is actually a good means to "center" the weight applied to a smaller area, rather than spread it across a larger surface of the wheel.

    A necessary fix only when an assembly is asking for an excessive amount of weight.

    All true, although a bent wheel should show up during a visual inspection when the assembly is being balanced. Also, it probably won't balance out properly. The "bad tire" reference is in the event of a tire that is out of round and unable to be balanced. It's not incredibly uncommon, but given that you're getting a sudden vibration, it's very likely a balance issue, not a tire one.
     
  5. Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    In my personal opinion (no offense). Anything that 'sticks' to a wheel can & will eventually fall off. Double stacking them is even worse.

    And yes, I had a tech double stack sticky weights on my jeep. The dump-ass never even considered 'checking' to see if the calipers would clear before giving it back to the customer (me). Geez....and they got ripped off on the way home. Imagine that?
     
  6. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I took it to firestone today. They took off the front driver wheel and attempted to balance it at 6 oz of weight it still would not balance and they were concerned with attempting anymore wight on that wheel. They didn't even try the other three. So now I'm stuck with unbalanced wheels and tires until I can go tomorrow to where I bought them and have them un mount all 4 re mount and attempt balance again. I asked firestone to unmount and they said it wouldn't help which I disagree. I just want my truck back to normal.
     
  7. Mainmoe02

    Mainmoe02 Well-Known Member

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    There is your issue right there. They are still unbalanced and even slightly off can make it shake and wobble. I had this same experience a couple months back. I took it back to the same shop and they said each tire was zeroed out. After asking them to check the fronts again they did and the passenger front was off by .750. They couldn't get it zeroed out so they moved it to the back and put one rear tire up front. Maybe you could do this as well just so when you get above 50 it doesn't feel like your wheel is gonna fall off. Hopefully the shop you bought them from can replace if the tire is bad.
     
  8. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Well I plan to take them back tomorrow and have them take all the tires off run the wheels to make sure the wheels aren't bad (even though I don't feel they are) And then have them re mount each tire and check them. And hopefully they can get it that way if not I am going to try and be civil and get them to replace the tires since they are less than 3 weeks old at this point and have only been on the truck 2
     
  9. dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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    Weights actually stick better to other wheel weights than to painted aluminum.

    Caliper clearance should always be taken into consideration. Fortunately, we're talking about Tacomas - tons of room to play with!

    Ah, yes. Generals. Firestone certainly didn't take care of you. Have your shop 180 the tires that don't balance out within spec.
     
  10. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Well while waiting for walking dead to finish recording I just watched a youtube video that may or may not be of help to me. If my wheels weren't hub centric would it cause this issue now with bigger tires and not with the previous tires? The previous tires were hankook dynapro atm at 265/76/16 and I had no issues. Now I am at 285/75/16 and having issues. Should I check the wheels once again to make sure they are resting on the hubs even though I am pretty sure the hub bore is sitting flush on the hub?

    But it also still doesn't explain the not getting the tire to balance on the wheel. Guess I should have thought about that too.
     
  11. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Specs of my wheel

    American Outlaw Buckshot
    size: 16x8
    offset: -6 mm
    pattern: 6x139.7
    bore: 106.2 mm
    Load range: 2400 lbs
    color: MATTE BLACK
     
  12. Yotabilly

    Yotabilly Well-Known Member

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    Find out who which shop has a Hunter road force balancing machine. I have a set of Duratracs that have been rebalanced by Goodyear twice and still wobbled. Later I got a new set of wheels and had them installed at Discount Tire. It wasn't any better. So I found an independent shop who had the Hunter machine to do a post lift alignment and balance my tires. The wobble at 55mph- 70 mph is completely gone. Smooth as glass.
    The three previous times at the other shops they used a ton of weight.After the road force balancing the wheel with the most weight had an ounce and a half.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  13. dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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    Buckshots do not require hubcentric rings.

    Road force machines calculate the ideal position for a tire to a rim. It helps eliminate the natural imbalance for an assembly, which in turn minimizes the amount of extra weight required to achieve a true balance. 9/10 times an excessive imbalance can be corrected with a simple 180 of the tire.
     
  14. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So would you say take the wheels and tires back to the orginal shop or just take it somewhere and have it road balanced? I was prepared to pay for it today at firestone but they couldn't/wouldn't do the work.
     
  15. dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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  16. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Well i'll be damned the shop I bought my wheels and tires from have one based on hunters website.

    http://www.gsp9700.com/search/FindLocations.cfm

    Knoxville, tn 37912
     
  17. dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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    So you know, most shops will charge extra for ride match. While useful, it is a relatively involved process, and can be a pain in the ass.
     
  18. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    No national auto and tire. Not to be confused with National tire and battery. It is a hole in the wall shop that i've bought tires from for around 5 years since moving to Knoxville. They have always been the most courteous (minus one dickhead) and best priced in Knoxville.
     
  19. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Well it is at the shop so hopefully they get it straightened out. When I showed the the pic of the wheel weights they got on the offensive because I took the wheel off. So I will have to see.
     
  20. Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So got the truck back it's the same. No worse no better. I don't believe they took the tires off the rims. I went back had a mechanic ride with me showed him the issue he said I have too much lateral movement. They want me to drop the truck off in the morning and let them go through the whole front end. Said they will start with tearing down the wheels and tires again spin each and check for tread separation then look at lower ball joints, wheel bearings, rack, etc. I don't get how all this issue is coming from any of that. The shop is acting like they don't want to replace the tires. I don't know what else to to do because I don't really want them messing with anymore. I feel like they should take the tires off. Give me my money back and I'll go get other tires elsewhere. Just really upset at this point. Mainly because I can't drive the truck because I'm scared something is going to break.
     
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