Beating a dead horse

Thanks for the input guys, so I started the soak today, we shall see how it goes!

And yeah the only reason I would want the 4.0l is for the power. The 2.7 isn’t bad, but in TN there’s lots of big hills. But I’m getting used to just keeping the rpms up and downshifting to 4th on the interstate lol. On the other hand, LCE is making supercharger kits for the 2.7 now, but I ain’t about to spend that kinda money on this truck.

so anyways, the trucks been sitting for a day so everything’s nice and cold, I pulled the plugs and they look decent, the mixture looks fine, none of them were wet. I decided to grab the borescope and check out the piston tops, wish I could’ve seen the walls better but my good borescope broke so I’m using this dinky one I got as a backup from tiktok shop. It was $10 and it’s basically a child’s play toy so the photo quality ain’t great, but here’s how things looked:


^clylinder 1. Looks pretty clean, can even make out the divots on the piston head.


^ #2. Definitely some carbon build up, perhaps this is my culprit cylinder. Unfortunately the engine stopped with #2 & 3 almost at TDC so I couldn’t actually see the entirety of the piston top. I did get close up on 1 & 4 just to make sure having the camera this close wasn’t fooling me. #2 is definitely more dirty than the others.


^#3 also quite dirty with carbon build up. Not sure if equal to, better than, or worse than 2, but leaning towards slightly better than 2, not by much tho.


^#4 just as clean as cyl 1. No worries here.

so with that, I got a funnel with a hose attachment and loaded all 4 cylinders up with berrymans brand cleaner. I did a test a year or two ago of Berryman vs seafoam when I was cleaning some old Bosh K-Jetronic mechanical injectors on my buddy’s VW rabbit. The berrymans cleaned much better so it’s my go to now. I loaded it up with probably far too much, I used almost all of one of the tall boy cans.

one thing I did notice… there was some funky build up with a light oily film around the coil packs both above them in the valley and under their rubber weather seals. The spark plugs were looser than they should be imo. Someone has defiantly changed them. There was dielectric grease all over them. I should’ve taken note of the part number, they were denso atleast, but I could tell by the fat electrode tips they were cheaper ones. I’m usually not much of a fan of iridium plugs but what material plugs are y’all running? I reckon I’ll change them while I’m in here.

with that done, I critter proofed it



(god I miss having an actual garage), thankfully I have a motorcycle to get to work and back the next two days while it soaks, so Saturday I’ll suck the excess out with my vacuum brake bleeder tool and change the oil. And then we shall see how she does! Got my fingers crossed.

 

I did the iridiums when I changed mine around 110K in 2019. They ran fine that long so I went with it again. So far so good.

 

Came here to say this. Make sure to change filters with every one of these quick Valvoline Protect and Restore changes. Once things are back to normal do 5k mile oil / filter changes to prevent the sludging. Id probably also drive it hard and do some significant engine braking (downshift and let the motor sing) to create lots of cylinder vacuum just to move things about.

 

This is an interesting situation that might actually be caused by too much light/low engine speed operation. I had never heard of the oil rings getting fouled but it makes sense.

I honestly run the piss out of my 2.7. Lots of sustained 3500rpm+ pulling a trailer, frequent 5000rpm+ passing traffic...etc. I have a bad habit of making slow things go fast haha!

140,000 miles, 10k oil changes with SuperTech 0w/20.

I'm an older guy too that's used to lazy V8s but these aren't like that. For best results with your 2.7..use ALL the power. That means high rpm...plus it's more fun

 

When I soaked the pistons on my wife's car, I rotated the crank shaft (socket on nut with breaker bar) every 6 hours and topped up the Berryman's as required.... over a 24 hr period.

 

Its not just the engine that swaps over with maybe a flash or a couple modules- it's the almost entire wiring harness, computers, the works. Consider it a frame up process, even though it isn't quite - you have to touch almost everything in the truck. That's a lot of $$$ and/or labor.

 

So typically on the few 80s/90s cars I’ve swapped before it just involves the new engine and its engine harness and the ECU, and depending on the swap usually repinning to the dash connector(s) or making a jumper harness is required. Of course there’s other things to consider like engine mounting points, radiator, and if using a different transmission then the driveshaft length and transmission mounting points. And that’s what I’m wondering- let’s say money aside, how direct of a swap is the 4.0? Will it drop in and mount on the existing engine mount spots or are the frames different? Is it close enough I could weld some offset brackets up and have that settled? Will the 4.0l engine harness plug and play or require repining? Assuming that the wiring to the body harness is correct will it work or will there be problems with the body modules? Does this truck even use a CANBUS system for them to communicate? Can it bolt up to the 5spd trans? Will the 6spd trans mount to the existing 5spd location? Are the driveshafts the same length? These are the questions I have. I mean I’m probably not going that route, but I’m still curious

 

I should probably do that. I’ll do it tomorrow. I just topped up the Berryman b12 today. I gotta figure out which way this engine spins first I reckon.

 

probably so, I’m not sure what it endured until 2021 when the guy I bought it from purchased it. But I know in 2021 it was bought in Florida, and then at some point he moved to Cincinnati. So I’m sure it was in that Cincinnati stop and go traffic and short city trips here and there. Probably the same in FL but idk where he lived in FL so who knows.

I would not advise 10k mile oil change intervals. 5k would be best my guy. I had a lengthy discussion with a chemist who worked in the oil refining business last time I went down to barbers for the vintage swap meet/AMA races about oil. It was enlightening.

 

Alrighty. The trucks sat for 48 hours with the cylinders halfway filled with Berrymans B12, so I decided to check on things today.

cylinders 1&4 had completely emptied and looked…interesting. Cylinders 2&3 were still submerged in cleaner.


^cyl 1

^ cyl 2&3 couldn’t see anything but my reflection. I tried submerging the camera but couldn’t see anything notable.


^cyl 4

So kinda interesting that the problem child’s 2 & 3 didn’t drain the b12 past the rings much after 48hrs. I should probably rotate the engine some to work the rings. I’ll do that tomorrow. For now I just topped it up with more b12 cleaner. Sunday I’ll do the oil change finally. I picked up some Marvel Mystry Oil to throw in when I change the oil so maybe that’ll also help. They’ve got a new synthetic formula. I’m not much of a fan of “mechanic in a bottle” concoctions, but my engine building grandpa swears by the stuff so I figure it can’t hurt, and beats tearing the engine down.

The only part of this process that has gone awry for me is the spark plugs… I’m pretty sure #1 is stripped out. They were all pretty loose when I went to remove them. Like maybe 4ft lbs tight. Which was concerning. I know nobody ever looks at torque specs on things like spark plugs but if you’re wondering it’s 13ft lbs according to my manual. So when I went to reinstall them two days ago I felt the plug on cyl 1 start to get a little tight (like just snugged up, not overtight) but immediately felt looser. It’s still tight thankfully, but nowhere near 13ft lbs. I was not using my torque wrench, but I have never used it on plugs and I replace plugs on engines almost every day working in the motorcycle and automotive industries for the last 17 years. I’m pretty in tune to what 8ft lbs feels like because pretty much every motorcycle engine side cover is 7-9ft lbs. and I do use my inch lb torque wrench when I do that. That’s why I’m certain these plugs were at less than 7ft lbs when I removed them. I also noticed the plugs look like they had anti seize on the threads. That’s a big no no in my book on aluminum heads. Too easy to strip for the average joe. And I’m guessing that’s what happened. Guy probably stripped the 1st one slightly and then went very light handed on the rest.

I can only hope it will crush the new washer when I replace them and not strip the threads first instead. I guess I’m just going to leave that plug a little looser than 13ft lbs when I do it. It’ll be fine…probably. It’s at that point where like you know it’s stripped but it still has some tightness to it, I’m just deathly scared that giving it that extra 1/4 turn is going to completely strip it, but it’s not very tight so that equally bothers me. Guess all I can do is put the new plug in on sunday and hope it snugs up enough to crush the washer but not strip. Otherwise I reckon I’ll be drilling and inserting a time sert or helicoil or something of that nature

 

I've always stuck with 5K as well, though since 2020 I've had to do it every 6 months versus the 5K.

 

The frames are the same, you can remove the mounts for the 2.7 and bolt in mounts for the 4.0, no welding needed.

The 4.0 and 2.7 use different transmissions in these trucks, so that needs to swap as well, and depending on your drivetrain (RWD/4WD) you'll need to make sure you get one with the correct tailpiece (A750E RWD/A750F 4WD). I don't actually know if the 5/6 speed trans will directly swap out as far as mounting goes, but there are trans mounts that fit to the trans crossmember in either case, and the frames are the same, so I would guess it's a matter of installing the correct mounts in the correct locations as with the engines. There are a couple of manual swap threads that will probably give you a good eyefull of the trans mount situation.

The wiring harnesses are very different, and it's not a matter of simply repinning - you're making or transplanting the engine harness, or doing an incredible Frankenstein on the existing which you probably know is not usually a great idea. These trucks do use CANBUS, but I don't think your existing modules will have a problem talking to the new ECU. The ECU is slightly picky, though, and you need to make sure that you have a full correct match - I don't recall all of the details for ECU replacement offhand, but if you go this route don't just pick up the first good/used 4.0 ECU you find.

Honestly at this point you might as well just drop in an LS or something, it's about the same amount of labor

 

oh for sure I’ve never tried to make an engine harness from scratch, just get the whole engine with its harness and ECU as a package. I have made a body harness from scratch once though. That was quite a job, took about 2 months. But everything worked like factory, I was very pleased with myself on that one. What I’m talking about is repinning at the connector where the engine harness plugs into the body harness. All the swaps I’ve done were engines not offered factory so I’ve always had to repin there. I wasn’t sure if a the 4.0 would plug and play here or not since it was a factory option. Is the ECU more of a PCM then? Why’s it picky?

at this point if I was going to do a swap I’d probably do the tundra v8 (2uzfe?) or I would love to do a 2jz na-t or gte, my buddy has an older Toyota pickup with a 2jzgte swap and it absolutely rips. I almost bought it instead of this truck lol it was fast but rough around the edges.

 

The ECU (actually called an ECM on these trucks) needs to match part numbers (from the donor vehicle in your case, so best to get it directly from the donor vehicle) exactly due to internal differences, and the immobilizer code and VIN need to be reprogrammed. The VIN is not a necessity to make it run, IIRC.

The Tundra swap has been done, there are a couple of build threads on here about it. Those threads might give you some insight on what goes into a swap, electrically/electronically.

 

Many years ago I bought a very well cared for Plymouth with only 79,000 miles from a local school teacher.

In doing my "new to me" vehicle service I checked the compression and the engine was in excellent shape, serviced the cooling system and replaced the incorrect 180 degree the proper 195 degree one, adjusted the valves (it was a thing back then ) and filled it with Castrol 20W-50 oil - it was advertised as having the highest detergent back in the day.

This was king of the oils back in the day.



My wife put the car in the road going to school - 80 miles a day and she drove with a heavy foot.
The oil turned black almost instantly and the car was consuming a several quarts between 3000 mile changes - the normal interval back then.

Well, I monitored the level closely, kept adding & changing, the new oil would at first turn black almost instantly. As the miles climbed it would blacken slower and the consumption started to drop.
By 100,000 miles the car would go a full 3000 miles with no consumption and the oil would be only dark honey colored coming out.

Why:

The car had a "Slant 6" engine, heavy cast iron and very slow to warm up, it also had a 180 thermostat, parts stores used to run out of the 195s. The school teacher took good care of the car but only drove about 6500 miles a year - slow, cold, short in town trips. These are the ideal conditions for sludge build up.

My wife was driving 2000 high speed highway miles per month with a high detergent oil, with the engine up to full operating temperature for long periods of time those detergents could go to work on the sludge that prevented the oil control rings from sealing well.
That broken down sludge is what turned the oil black so fast.

Sold the car at 151,000 running like a watch.

 

I’m sure it had great oil pressure too!

 

Volare or Duster is my guess..

 

Volare, it was a 1979 with the "Super Six" package. Aluminum intake and a 2 barrel carb, no computer control, the 78-79 models had one of the best cams ever to leave the factory.

Man alive would that car run, there was always extra power under your foot for passing or hill climbing, pretty thrifty too, mid 20's on the highway.

Pretty fancy car for the day and target market too - automatic, power steering & brakes, tinted glass all around, air conditioning, FM radio, delay wipers, deluxe seats.

Young folks won't understand how the features today that are standard were a big deal back then.

 

I almost bought several of those cars in my teen years..just what was available and had the 6 banger, which was more attractive to me as a high school kid paying his own way. Not to mention as you said the overall reliability.

Totally re the features, AC alone back in those days was a big deal, and if it still worked 10 yrs later was a bonus

 

That’s awesome RustyGreen! Fortunately I drive 64 miles a day just to commute and it’s pretty much all highway/interstate. So hopefully that’ll help!

Guys I just got done with the Berryman B12 soak and went for the first test drive so only time will tell at this point. I’ll check back in in 1k miles and see if there’s any consumption. I forgot to take photos but the tops of cyl2 & 3 came out pretty clean, I could actually see the tops of the pistons again. And the new spark plug tightened up just fine, not sure why the old one felt like it was stripped, but long story short she’s all good now! I also replaced the trans fluid on my 5spd MT with some redline MT90 while I was at it. The old fluid actually looked really good still. Maybe it’s placebo but I swear it does feel a little smoother now. Still a little trouble getting into gears from a dead stop, but not as bad. Someone told me the bottom shifter bushing can cause that. There’s no slop in the shifter though, she feels solid. I’ll have to remove the boot and have a gander yet still.

I did have a fright as I started it to test drive, it wouldn’t start, just crank, I thought I’d gotten all the b12 out of there but in a frantic panic I went WOT to try and clear anything and it slowly came to life with a bunch of smoke from the exhaust, but then as I was on the test drive it dawned on me I had the vac line for the fuel pressure regulator off and had bumped the starter with the plugs out to rotate the engine before the final soak, and then a day later again cranked it with the plugs out to clear any of the b12 or gunk out I couldn’t suck out. So I think we just emptied the injectors so it needed to build pressure back again.

On another side note, why is it $5-6,000 to have the timing cover gasket replaced? Mine drips a few drops, I’m not sure how much but not 2 quarts worth when sitting, so I’m sure the rings were the issue, but I just honestly didn’t want to deal with the timing cover gasket and I’m reading that ppl have been quoted $5500-6800 to have that gasket replaced. WHY? I’ve done that job on plenty of other vehicles, it’s a bigger job, but it’s not no $5k job imo, and it doesn’t look any more complicated than the ones I’ve done in the past.