Best gen for 'moderate' build up?

Well I've taken some "rough" measurements on a 'stock' 1st gen vs my 09 on 32" tires. Even with 1" larger tires, the 1st gen had me at least 1" at the crossmember, 2" at the front suspension under the nose. I've tried to dig around but finding accurate measurements is hard; the best I could do was one person reviewing a stock 2003 Tacoma, measuring almost 18" to the frame rails, on a stock Tacoma. That's almost 4" better, stock, than my '09 w/ 32" tires. So, add a 3-4" coilover lift + 33" tires to a 1st gen, you get, what, 8" better clearance at the frame rails, 5-7" at the crossmember, 6-8" at the front suspension… I'd have to put a 6" lift onto the 2009 to get close to those #'s, and even then, with the drop bracket connectors, my lowest point is still less than 16" off the ground between the axles (with 33's).

Maybe I'm wrong on that, maybe the couple of trucks I saw actually had a small leveling kit, but they looked bone stock with bone stock tires, suspension to me. Of course, I didn't spend forever hanging out underneath some stranger's truck — no need to get shot or anything

I bike to work whenever possible. I spent less than $60 on gas last month for two trucks, counting our outings. it'll wear more I know, but I don't think enough to bother me on the drive to the supermarket once a month

 

Silver07 & Silverseven, you guys have nice setups both, I've checked them out, but when you say "Fabetech 6-inch has less ground clearance," you have to qualify that, that you mean ONLY between the front tires; everywhere else, entry & departure angles, between-axle ground clearance, all belongs to the 6" lifts. even counting the DB connectors, the lowest point discounting the 'axles' is still about 2" higher, vehicle-for-vehicle comparo. I tend to think that's where the clearance is most important, esp. considering no matter what, YOU'RE rear axle is still the same height off the ground and follows everywhere the front goes, negating most of the advantage you speak of…

I was going to go the 3" route and pretty much build my truck up to be like your guys', but my concern is the lack of ground clearance. I can't even approach & scale w/o highcentering SMALL logs in my '09, and 3" + ½" for the tires really isn't all that much. It's better but not leaps & bounds so.

It just seems to me, the 1st gens have better native ground clearance and MAY be better to build from for "moderate" build-ups (3-6" lifts, tires, armor, etc). I can add 3" coilovers and have the advantages you guys speak of BETWEEN the tires, AND the ground clearance between THE AXLES that the 6" DB lifts provide on the 2nd gens.

But I'm unsure which is why I started the thread — what's missing? What technical function makes the 2nd gen better to build from? What makes it so much better that it can overcome the apparent ground clearance disadvantage over the 1st gens? What's wrong with the 1st gens that even though they have so much better ground clearance? Or, what makes the 1st gens leaps & bounds better? just the ground clearance advantage & shorter front/rear wheelbase?

Maybe I'm wrong about that, maybe my measurements are wrong? Maybe there's soemthing else I'm not considering properly. I want to make the best decision FOR ME (and possibly others who stumble here). And I want your knowledge, please!

 

Eather way you cant go wrong, With my truck with 2.5 of lift and 31" tires ive done black trails, I wish i had an first gen for trail use just dont have the money to own 2 truck.

 

Anyone with a STOCK 1st gen DC TRD care to take a few measurements? I want to make sure that I've got the right 'facts' I guess. What's the ground clearance to the crossover & frame rails, on a stock 1st gen , stock suspension & tires… ?

 

in a hurry for work didnt read this all.. but i have a procomp 6" lift, same as fabtech for all intents and purposes. And I dont really have any complaints. I mean it looks sick, it wheels pretty well, though i try not to beat on it because it has inherint weaknesses. Im sasing my truck now because i want to do crazy shit. When you say expo i think 4 day long adventures across barron lands... for that type of journey I would only go sas or LT. You could do it with a normal 3" kit, and you could also do it with a fabtech lift. But if im doing hardcore stuff, i want my equipment to be even more hardcore. But then again i have ADHD, OCD, and i smoke PCP on a regular basis, so really the point is moot.


about the GC stuff, maybe the 1st gens have better who knows.. but you may be over thikning this... Silver07 and silverback07 and several others have 3" kits on 05+ and wheel the shit out of it.

 

Passez moi Le Mayo!

 

sounds like a gross invitation to take some mayo....

To the OP, Go First Gen!!! you can find a great trail truck in your area for cheap!!

Edit: not first gen Tacoma, first/second gen pickup.....

 

Well those guys have aftermarket lifts precisely to give better ground clearance and/or fit larger tires, in turn giving better ground clearance. It's important, it's why we're on THIS board, not driving around AWD subarus (ground clearance).

There's a lot of factors that go into making a good off-road rig perform up to snuff, ground clearance is an important one. And most of the other stuff can be taken care of aftermarket (front lockers, guards, etc), so really the 1st gen/2nd gen is just about icing the cake, maybe? You know, could that extra 2-3" be worth using it as the buildup?

Nah, can't. Read the post, I need the space, I have to limit my choices to a 1st or 2nd gen DC taco.


And you know what? There are FAR too many of you guys with silver 2007's, man! I can't keep you all straight. I feel like I should give you all a different number or something.

 

nothing about the california desert, other than the tourist trap Glamis, is soft and flat...

its nothing but sharp rocks, rough terrain, and hill climbs too..

i hate that misconception about soft straight sand...

anywho, back to topic...

definitely go with the older gen double cab... with the older truck, you can wheel it how you like, and not have to worry about what you break as parts are easier to find and work on...

with the older truck, you don't worry about bangin it up and can focus on havin your fun on the trails...

or turn ur current rig into a trail truck n get a new family car for town...

 

anyone know what the stock breakover angle is for the 1st gen DC's? I can find it for my model year (21º), but not the previous generations.

Anyone here with a still-stock 1st gen? I'd love to get a few measurements from ya!

 

You could look into an 80s 4Runner that is 4x4. The shell comes off and makes it like a pickup. Those are dirt cheap, lots of mods available, and fun. you can getone with a nice interior for your family to not be grossed out but the exterior can take a exploring beating every once and a while.

 

Are you an engineer? Dude, its pretty clear: the first gen is a smaller vehicle, better fir tight trails and overall wheeling. The 2nd gen is more comfortable and pretty much as good at wheeling.


If Technical wheelig is your goal buy a first gen


If co fortable voyages are your goal buy a 2nd gen




As for angles and lengths and millimeters of differences, you might hit up a big parkinglot with your protractor and a calculator.

 

I'm pretty engineering

Don't tempt me

I plan on doing just that. Or actually, maybe finding one parked residentially and doing it. Just hoping I could find out this way before I had to resort to that.

"Excuse me sir, I wanted to let you know that I will be outside, measuring underneath your truck this morning. I mean you no harm. I carry no explosives, But have been told I'm DA BOMB. Take that for what it's worth."

 

I would think that a 1st gen Taco would be better for a major off road build up just because parts are going to be more available and probably cheaper too.

I have to say though, that the 2nd gen taco's look really bad ass when built up so if it were me I would and am building up my 2nd gen.

 

Here's what I'm thinking about suspension equipment for each. To end up with about the same clearance/breakover angles on each, the 2nd gen needs the 6" w/33" tires, the 1st gen the 3" with 33" tires. I don't like the 6" lifts on the 1st gens, personal preference perhaps, but they seem too top-heavy with the 6" lifts. The 2nd gens start lower and have a wider stance & wheelbase, so they can handle the extra inches better. thing is, they end up damned near the same. For anyone else that may be interested, I stopped, asked first and took some measurements off some local stock 1st Gen DC TRDs. here's the measurements, and the measurements off my 2nd gen DC OR, with 32" tires and also the "stock" measurements, basically minus the ¾" gain from the tire size:

1st Gen DC TRD, stock suspension, tires:
Lowest point: Fronst suspension skid plate, 10"
Crossmember: 12"
Frame rails:~15"

my 2nd gen DC OR, 32" tires:
Lowest point: Front suspension w/ factory skid plate, 8-¾"
Crossmember: 10-¾"
Frame Rails: 14"

Factory 2nd gen DC, stock tires:
Front suspension w/ skid plate, 8"
Crossmember: 10"
Frame rails: 13-¼"


So, a 2nd Gen with a 6" lift & 33" tires yields about 20.5" to 21" at the frame rails, with the lowest point being the DB connectors at 15-¾", ~16" of height off the ground.

A 1st Gen with a 3" lift and 33" tires nets about 18.5" to 19" at the frame rails, with the lowest point being the factory crossmember, at ~16" off the ground.

… …

The 2nd gen w/ a 6" lift (if we don't go higher than 3" & 33's on the 1st gen) will have a slight edge in absolute ground clearance between the axles, but only after the DB connectors pass the obstacle. As far as breakover angle, I'm too lazy to do the math but imagine that at these comparison setups, they're about equal. There are other harder-to-measure things as well, such as the fact that the 1st gen gets to these heights w/o drop brackets, meaning they clear a LOT more airspace between the front tires than the 6" 2nd gen. However, the rear diff is still the same height as the 2nd gen rear diff with same-sized tires, so… is there really an actual "clearance" benefit there if the rear track follows the front track anyway? debatable.

The 1st gen also has a tighter turning radius & smaller footprint, making it more nimble, a definite plus. It's also a few hundred pounds lighter to boot. Some people will point out the 190hp 3.4L is vagina compared to the 4.0L in the 2nd gens, but in off-road situations? my old 4runner w/ the 3.4L never felt underpowered except on the freeway trying to pass people @ 75mph, so I say there's no loss there on the trail. Plus to be honest, so far I'm not a fan of the drive-by-wire, I don't feel as in-control of the throttle.

To answer my own question, which is better when they're equipped like so, It could be a toss-up. I'm torn right now and will have to do more thinking… the absolute gains of the 2nd gen @ 6" of lift sounds nice, but it comes with the costs of a) added weight, b) drive-by-wire throttle, c)added expense for the components, and d) the fear that as I'm dragging my ass over sh!t I'm gonna break those damned Drop Bracket connectors, sitting there a few inches off anything, 2 feet long with the weight of the vehicle dropping dead-center on them after the obstacles pass the front tires…

The 1st gens don't get the same absolute ground clearance with the 3" lift & 33's it seems though they're close, BUT the lowest point is a) the same height as the 2nd gen 6" lifts, and b) the lowest point is also heartier IMO. The factory crossmember *SEEMS* heavier-duty, like it could stand quite a bit more abuse off-road as it's being drug over things. I could be wrong on this I admit, but appearances seem to say that's the case.

there's also the fact that the 2009 OR's have not only the locking rear, but ATRAC AND both can be engaged on the 2009-later models. Nice because it's basically an open diff until you need otherwise, negating the need to do an all-time truetrac install on the 1st gens, or a locker in the front and have to deal with that while navigating or deciding WHEN to lock it in advance, etc etc.

Thanks for the input everyone, if you have more, please share. this could be a good starting point for others searching for basic information!

 

yeah right dude, "basic" is a bit of an overstatement wouldnt ya say? or would it be understatement? maybe over/under an equal statement? whats the co-equivalent to my balls sweat? i wonder how many drops of sweat they perspire per day? i wonder if i use gold bond menthol if that number decreases? what about original gold bond? if i change my underwear twice a day can i avoid skidmarks?

 

I am not sure why you seem to be so up in arms over the questions. If they were so easy why couldn't everyone just answer them right offhand? I had to ASK people with 2nd gen 6" fabtech lifts & 33's to 'measure' at their DB connectors; no one knew offhand. "Basic" yes in that the measurement is fairly easy to make, but damned if anyone actually KNEW to tell me. YOU sure as hell didn't know, did you? How 'basic' was it, then?

Fuck me for actually trying to get to the bottom of it though, huh? I guess it's better to just jump in and say "to hell with measuring twice & cutting once, I ought to just be like everyone else and just put sh!t together and see if it fits, and if it doesn't oh-fucking-well I'll just buy more & more parts until eventually I've got a franken-vehicle! Which is NOT what I wanted! Guess we'd all rather just be ignorant or something?

Had to trim those body mounts to fit them tires? Or did you ask and find out what you could fit? Either way, whatever your answer, remember: millimeters, my friend. they matter.

 

only in the locker room.


Glad u found the info u needed