Best Manual?

I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't agree with what you said about the shortcuts people come up with. The FSM was written by human beings that are all fallable. Just because the FSM says a specific way to do something doesn't make it gospel. There's a lot of smart and ingenious dudes out there that come up with some great ways to get stuff done. Toyota engineers and technical writers make mistakes. Sure, you have to analyze what they're showing you but I've seen many instances where the FSM recommended a lot of stuff that wasnt necessary to get the job done. The FSM is just one of many tools you can use to get the job done. It's not always right and it's not always going to show you the BEST way to accomplish a job.

I think we're all mostly on the same page but I don't agree with the level of bashing on YouTube videos. You guys are making it sound like 95% of the stuff on YouTube is crap and that has not been my experience.

Another thing I have a problem with is your comment that people shouldn't attempt something just because they can't figure out how to do the job with just the FSM as a reference. That comment is utter bullshit. The goal of the YouTube channel I started with my friend Sean is to empower people to handle their own automotive repairs, maintenance and mods. We've had tons of people comment telling us if it wasnt for one of our videos, they wouldn't of had the confidence to attempt the job. Comments like that let us know were succeeding with our goal of empowering people. You saying they shouldn't attempt something is a pretty elitist thing to say. Anyone. I mean ANYONE can tackle their own automotive jobs when armed with the Right Information, Right Tools, and have the Right Level of Patience. Most automotive work isn't rocket science but it can be intimidating nonetheless. YouTube videos like ours are empowering people to turn a wrench becoming self sufficient and saving themselves a ton of money in the process.

 

Ok, I wanna see all these mistakes you speak of that are in the FSM. I have yet to come across any serious mistake. A word misspelled here or there yes. But that's it.

I don't see how you think that YouTube or the internet could be anywhere close to being as reliable as the FSM. There's a reason real mechanics rely heavily upon All-Data (closest thing to the family) and the FSM, and not forums and YouTube. Yes, they use the internet an awful lot. But many times you can't do it without a proper service manual BY THE FOLKS WHO BUILT THE THING. you'd think they know what they are talking about.

I have seen so many bogus YouTube videos it's not even funny. Ridiculous mistakes are made and a lot of bad practices are thought of as OK by folks with zero experience because "well I seen it on YouTube, and it worked for him"

I do agree there are lots of shortcuts that are helpful. Bottom line is, as @Russianman92 said, they tell you to take this stuff apart for a reason. Gotta look at the big picture. The FSM is gonna tell you how to do it right the first time, no screwing around with half baked shortcuts and other nonsense that takes longer than if you just did it by the book.

You do need experience working mechanically, because if you are not mechanically inclined you will screw stuff up. Not just anybody can change a head gasket on their own. Simple (and costly) mistakes will be made because people don't know what they are doing. YouTube and internet only helps so much is all I am getting at.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents, I am a random guy off the internet as well, so please, don't take it from me only. Do the research for yourself and you will find out.

Apologize if this comes across as bashing you, because that's not what's intended. I think you have the right idea, but disagree with your views on the fsm vs internet.

 

Anyway, apologies for this debate in your thread OP. Hope you understand and can figure out what manual is best for you!

BarnBoy out

 

Well, let's agree to disagree. I'm not going to start digging through the FSM to share with you some of the excessive steps I've seen in the FSM. But, off the top of my head, there were some excessive things in regards to replacing the steering rack and there were excessive steps mentioned for the timing belt job.

My feelings aren't hurt at all. Like I said, I do agree there's bad info out in YouTube land but I've found even the bad ones do offer helpful info. YouTube is an incredible resource in my opinion. Yeah, everyone has different levels of mechanical aptitude, but auto mechanics, just like anything else can be learned. You don't have to go to an automotive institute to learn how to wrench on your vehicle. You just need to have the willingness to learn and the willingness to invest in some tools.

And guess what, paid dealership mechanics screw up with a pretty high frequency and they're suppose to be the experts with these vehicles. I hear about these screw-ups all the time on T4R.org from dealership mechanics and from mechanics from private shops. I was the recipient of a screwed up repair from my local dealer. It's for this reason why I choose to do my own wrenching and share with others what I've learned, via YouTube.

 

What ever resource helps get the job done.

Where I live no cell service at all Internet so slow a 5minute video takes over a hour to download If it does not abort

I tend to like my hard copy of manuals .

Then to me 8 track tape players are High Tech

 

I agree. Excessive steps I have seen for myself, but rarely if ever do I recall a mistake.

And yeah I have seen folks who didn't know a spark plug from a hole in the ground motivate themselves to learn how to fix cars and with amazing results! Definitely not for everyone but it saves a boatload of money. There's so many dishonest mechanics out there, whether that be dealership or private. It's a nice peace of mind to know YOU did the work and that it's done right.

Anyway, have a good afternoon!

 

I agree completely. It's hard to tell the "good" from the "bad", and none of us are perfect. I've given out bad info (unknowingly) and worked to correct it, but if yo only read a single post, it's impossible to tell...

I have the PDF manual, BTW, too...

You really have to take everything you see and read with a grain of salt.