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BFG All-Terrain Tire 265/70R17 Out-of-Round!

Discussion in 'Wheels & Tires' started by w8n4mud, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. Feb 2, 2009 at 4:17 PM
    #1
    w8n4mud

    w8n4mud [OP] There's a mod for that!

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    So this past Sat. was vehicle maintenance day. My wife and I took our respective Toyotas to Toyota of Chula Vista for a kick ass deal on an oil change ($9.95). Yes they told me my engine filter was dirty by the way (thank you Ocotillo Wells)! Anyways, after that we took my truck to Courtney Tire and had my rotation and balance done for free because I had purchased the rims and tires there. After they were done, we left back to Toyota to pick up my wifes highlander when the steering wheel was shaking like it was 30 below. I called them up and said I needed an alignment. They asked me if it was shaking when I brought it in. I said no. So they asked if I could drop if off again but this time to leave it there. So I did, but before I left one of the guys took a front tire off and started spinning it on the balancer. He called me over and said look at your tire. :eek: Why is it doing that? He said it was Out-of-Round. I never felt it before probably because it was in the rear for a while. So in an attempt to fix the problem, they replaced that tire for FREE! He said to report on the feel back on Monday. I had the feeling the moment I left the second time, that the steering wheel was still going to shake and it did. I told them that and well you guessed it, it's back at Courtney Tire today. They said they were going to dismount the tires from all the rims and check if the rims may be causing the tire to be Out-of-Round. I thought you'd be interested in a little frustration. My dad, who is a customer there as well, was told by one of the guys there that Toyota Tacomas are known for having shaky steering wheels with aftermarket rims and tires. So I'm curious if you guys are experiencing the same thing? The sad thing is, I didn't leave them a whole lot of gas to test drive the truck before I pick it up early this evening. Well, I guess I'll keep you all posted.
     
  2. Feb 2, 2009 at 4:23 PM
    #2
    JDMcQ

    JDMcQ Well-Known Member

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    I just put new wheels and BFG At's on my 2003 and had the same problem. I rotated them this weekend and it seems better. My problem is, I bought them off of ebay and can't return them. I will be watching this thread for any other suggestions.
     
  3. Feb 2, 2009 at 4:23 PM
    #3
    MyToyTaco

    MyToyTaco ╒╪╕

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    just reminded me i really need to check my filter :eek:
     
  4. Feb 2, 2009 at 4:33 PM
    #4
    snowmansgarage

    snowmansgarage Well-Known Member

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    Well, a shaking steering wheel will not be fixed by an alignment. That is caused by a tire/wheel imbalance. Do you have aftermarket wheels on your rig? If you do, are they hubcentric? Meaning the wheel is centered by a lip on the hub that perfectly matches the opening inside of the lug holes. Was there a vibration ever felt in the seat of your pants prior to the rotation? It might have even just been very slight. I'm impressed over the fact that they replaced that tire for you. How many miles are on the tires and how did they determine the tire was defective? Did they road force the tire/wheel? I'll wait to hear some answers to these questions before I continue.
     
  5. Feb 2, 2009 at 4:45 PM
    #5
    CometKat

    CometKat Well-Known Member

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    My experience with BFG tires is that they are crap. I’ll probably replace mine at about 30k.
     
  6. Feb 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM
    #6
    w8n4mud

    w8n4mud [OP] There's a mod for that!

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    Here I go! I purchased the rims (yes aftermarket) and tires in Oct of 07. I have 70k now. I put them on around 35K with plenty of thread to boot. They told me over the phone a few minutes ago that they installed an E T style spacer to center the wheel to the hub (whatever that means). I believe that answers your first question. He did mention something about working with the lug nuts.
    I never felt the vibration before. Only in the steering. He said that they'd get credit for the bad tire. How they made that determination is beyond me. At one point, the truck felt like it wanted to go left, then right, then left, then right again while driving straight. That was fixed! Then I questioned them about the number of weights they were using to balance the actual tire. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 oz. (I think?). So I have "history" with them. I'd say that the other three tires still have about half the thread left. At this rate, I'm looking to get around 70k miles on them. I'll be on my way to pick it up in about a half an hour.
     
  7. Feb 2, 2009 at 5:51 PM
    #7
    snowmansgarage

    snowmansgarage Well-Known Member

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    Well I would question any shop that installs aftermarket wheels without them being hubcentric. I'm assuming the E T wheel spacer they installed corrected the improper hub centering problem. The issue that comes about when a wheel is not centered by the hub is that it uses the lug nuts/bolts to center the tire/wheel to the vehicle with can be varied by the torquing process of when they are installed. This is also a safety concern because the lug nuts/bolts aren't designed to support the vehicle. I can almost guarantee that any vibration issue can be resolved by making sure the wheels are hubcentric.

    Now that you have a only one brand new tire installed, this raises some other potential problems. With one new tire on one side, you could have wandering and brake pull issues caused by the difference in tread depth between sides. Now that they've corrected the problem with the centering rings, there probably isn't anything wrong with that tire they deemed defective.
     
  8. Feb 2, 2009 at 5:55 PM
    #8
    Delmarva

    Delmarva Mayor of TW

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    Nada, Zip, Zilch, Nothing
    I've always heard of the BFGs being hard to balance...
     
  9. Feb 2, 2009 at 6:53 PM
    #9
    Snipe

    Snipe Well-Known Member

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    This doesn't make sense

    The truck rode fine before you took it in
    They balance and rotate and then claim a tire is out of round so replace the tire but it does the same thing.

    I think they just don't understand how to balance and install Lug Centric and I remembered reading about something similar so went and found a couple threads which led me to this page

    This site explains it
    http://www.gadgetonline.com/Vibration.htm
     
  10. Feb 2, 2009 at 7:40 PM
    #10
    snowmansgarage

    snowmansgarage Well-Known Member

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    Don't believe everything you read on the internet...I have a hard time believing any auto manufacturer uses a lug centric wheel design. I will contact my Hunter rep tomorrow to verify as well as search other resources.
     
  11. Feb 2, 2009 at 7:47 PM
    #11
    wildjerseyfirefighter

    wildjerseyfirefighter I sell fishing and fishing accessories

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    There is lug centric balancing systems out there. I have it in my shop. My Ivan Stewarts have the same thing, there lug centric. I balanced them a few times to get them just right, and they dont vibrate AT ALL up to 90-100 mph. Let them replace all the tires they want to, and credit you for them. Just make sure there balanced correctly and you have no problems. Im not exactly sure on what you said they put 10oz of weight on, but thats WAYYYYYYY wrong. the only thing that should take 10oz of weight is a dump truck tire.

    What you should have them do is put the bare rim on the balancer, and spin it to make sure its not bent. If its not bent, balance the wheel and put it in the back and bring a rear up front. Or cross rotate them, so you dont have the same wheel in its original location.
     
  12. Feb 2, 2009 at 7:56 PM
    #12
    snowmansgarage

    snowmansgarage Well-Known Member

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    To get this post back on track, W8n4mud, how does it drive now with the centering rings installed? What is the final outcome about the new tire? How much tread life is left on your other three tires and are there any abnormal wear patterns?
     
  13. Feb 2, 2009 at 8:13 PM
    #13
    snowmansgarage

    snowmansgarage Well-Known Member

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    What balancing system do you use? I'm assuming you use the Haweka-style lug-centric balancing plate but that is only in conjunction with the correct hub cone. I think this is where some people are led off in the wrong direction. The Haweka plate helps the balancing of the tire/wheel but it does not mean that any wheel is lug centric. Without the Haweka plate, there are many variables that could lead to an improper balance.

    For the last three years I have used nothing but the Hunter 9700 system and I believe this has become the automotive industry standard. This machine is capable of detecting many possible causes of a tire/wheel imbalance, which includes a bent wheel without the removal of the tire.

    W8n4mud, if the shop that you are using did not install center rings when they installed your A/M wheels, I doubt they are balancing your wheels/tires in the correct way...keep us updated!
     
  14. Feb 2, 2009 at 8:24 PM
    #14
    wildjerseyfirefighter

    wildjerseyfirefighter I sell fishing and fishing accessories

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    we have older coates machines..not exactly sure of the model numbers..
     
  15. Feb 2, 2009 at 9:15 PM
    #15
    w8n4mud

    w8n4mud [OP] There's a mod for that!

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    So the new tire is at 16/32 (Front Left). The Front Right is at 11/32.
    The two rear tires are at 9/32 (just under the 10) on the outside and 11/32 on the inside (right at the line). I'm assuming the reason it didn't shake before was because the tire &/or rim combination was in the rear, hence not feeling it in the front. Since the rotation and the different style lug nuts on the rims (only in the front), the truck's ride is very smooth. I did feel a little bit of vibration, but that's also probably because I'm looking for it. I'll give it a fair drive tomorrow. The pictures below contain the weights.
     
  16. Feb 2, 2009 at 9:25 PM
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    SC4333

    SC4333 Well-Known Member

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    I have had a LOT of problems with BFG in the past (2-3 years back) and will never use them again. It is not uncommon for their tires to be out of round, and or significantly out of balance(6 to 7oz+). I spoke with a friend of mine who is a manager at the regional discount tire distribution center and he confirmed these problems with multiple batches throughout the last few years.

    I have been using Yokohama and Toyo tires ever since, and couldn't be happier. BTW not one of my wheels has more than 4 oz of weight on them now!
     
  17. Feb 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM
    #17
    derekabraham

    derekabraham Living vicariously through everybody

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    ...I'll take your tires. :)
     
  18. Feb 2, 2009 at 9:35 PM
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    SC4333

    SC4333 Well-Known Member

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    I would have gave them to you if i still had them. Got rid of them for 15 bucks a pop.. 305/70/R-16 BFGs.
     
  19. Feb 2, 2009 at 9:49 PM
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    snowmansgarage

    snowmansgarage Well-Known Member

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    Let me get this straight...they replaced your lug nuts? Secondly, from the pictures it looks as if they static balanced some tire/wheels and dynamic others. Are your aftermarket wheels hub centered? If not, you are fighting a never ending battle. Even if you are looking for it, you should not be able to feel an imbalance whether it be in the steering wheel or in the seat of your pants. Let's get some basics clarified first, but to me it sounds like you need to take your business to a place that is educated and equipped.
     
  20. Feb 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM
    #20
    snowmansgarage

    snowmansgarage Well-Known Member

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