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Big wheels + lift

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by knucklehead, May 1, 2012.

  1. May 1, 2012 at 12:15 PM
    #1
    knucklehead

    knucklehead [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Jeff
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    My AT20's are near gone, time to upgrade. I am weighing the possibility of going with larger wheels than stock. I understand that in certain cases, there can be issues with clearance.

    From my reading, it seems that most recommend bilstein 5100 adjustable shocks. Could someone clear up how these could possibly help with clearance? From what I can figure, all they will do is allow you to increase the ride height, the "compressed" position remains the same. That being the case, the clearance issue remains.

    I also see people recommending against "spacer" shock lifta. Is this because the suspension will bottom out against the shock rather than the bump stops? I could see breaking a shock if this happened... but if you installed thicker bump stops along with them, would that not suffice? i think that this option would be better than 5100 since it would increase the amount the suspension could drop out, maintaining the full range rather than shortening the range (as would happen if you added thicker bump stops to 5100 so it would actually increase clearance.

    Any legit (non-fanboi) thoughts on this?
     
  2. May 1, 2012 at 12:31 PM
    #2
    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Maybe I'm missing what you're trying to ask, but how do larger wheels cause clearance issues? Are you talking wider wheels or going from a like a 16" to a 17" wheel?

    As for Bilsteins, by moving the set collar up each notch you are increasing preload on the spring and lifting the vehicle. The more preload you add, the farther down the suspension is moved and gain "clearance" around body/frame parts. And no, you don't have the same compressed position because you don't have as much compression available due to preloading the springs.

    The better option is to set the Billy's at 0 and put larger springs in (Eibach). You don't have the harsher ride from extra preload and you get ~3" of lift.
     
  3. May 2, 2012 at 1:15 AM
    #3
    4Wheelin4Banger

    4Wheelin4Banger Longtime Toyman

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    Randy
    Ferntucky, NV Halfway between Reno & Falabama
    Vehicle:
    2011 4x4 Access Cab Silver State Edition
    3" OME lift 885s & Dakars riding on 33" KM2s Click the sig pic to see the build thread .
    285/75/16s will rub stock UCAs without proper back spacing. They will also rub your wheel wells and maybe your body mount and cutting will be required. Those are some of the reasons I went with the skinny 33"s the 255/85/16 BFG KM2s
    :wave: Jason. Yes longer spring would be better than preloading the stock ones. 3" from Ebach coils is a 1st Gen thing. On 2nd Gens Eibach coils only give you 1.6" and ToyTec preloads the 5100s to get 3" lift. In my opinion a better choice would be to get the shocks and springs that were designed to go together OME. Watch the video.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Suspension systems, especially when referring to 4WDs, are extremely complex. Determining the right solution for each 4WD requires special attention to many factors, with weight being the most critical. Old Man Emu 4x4 suspension by ARB approaches this in a unique way.
    This relationship between vehicle weight and suspension is where Old Man Emu gets its name - the emu is a large Australian flightless bird, when it runs, its powerful legs absorb most of the impact, allowing it to move over all types of terrain while its body remains virtually motionless. This is what Old Man Emu strives to achieve with its range of fully integrated 4x4 shocks and suspension systems. Old Man Emu suspension systems include carefully matched spring and shock combinations engineered to improve vehicle ride, handling and control under various loads.
    A single suspension lift kit system designed to suit a multitude of users simply isn't practical, as each user's preferences will dictate how the vehicle is outfitted and used. Despite these differences, most aftermarket 4x4 suspension systems are only available in a single configuration, with suspension lift height often being your only option.
    At OME, instead of merely offering a suspension lift kit that's little more than a compilation of parts aimed at raising your truck's height, we offer a range of tuned and matched integrated systems, each offering varying degrees of comfort, load carrying capability & control characteristics. The components are designed by ARB with an unrelenting, no compromise approach.
    Shock absorbers and springs for each new vehicle start off as prototypes, and are tested and modified in a variety of terrains and with varying loads. These trials and modifications can take weeks of testing in order to ensure the best possible combination for each application.
    We test and modify, test and modify and continue to do so for as long as it takes to ensure each shock and spring combination is ideally suited to a vehicle, its varying weights, the driver's suspension lift requirements and the terrain it'll encounter.
     
  4. May 2, 2012 at 5:30 AM
    #4
    knucklehead

    knucklehead [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So what youre saying, is that the springs will go flat before the suspension hits the bump stops, directing all of the force of a harsh bottomout through the base of the shock instead of dispursing it safely into the frame. That is the same problem as with spacer lifts.

    But you are also saying that with custom springs, this effect is nullified... which brings me back to an earlier concern -- it would still rub when the suspension is fully compressed.
     
  5. May 2, 2012 at 6:19 AM
    #5
    knucklehead

    knucklehead [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I'm not likely to go too wide. Narrow wheels work better in the snow since they cut through it.

    Do you know if this company would have shock lifts with thicker bump stops?
     
  6. May 2, 2012 at 8:58 AM
    #6
    4Wheelin4Banger

    4Wheelin4Banger Longtime Toyman

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    Randy
    Ferntucky, NV Halfway between Reno & Falabama
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    3" OME lift 885s & Dakars riding on 33" KM2s Click the sig pic to see the build thread .
    I haven't seen them selling bump stops & I have never hit my stock ones. The longer spring keeps you from hitting the bump stops without fully compressing the spring or shock as long as you don't go flying :)wave: Jason).
    You can get OME from ToyTec and they have a TW discount.
    As for tires I also prefer the skinnies and got 255/85/16 BFG KM2s. They work great and I did less sliding around in the mud than the guys I was with running fatter tires.
     
  7. May 2, 2012 at 10:46 AM
    #7
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    Steve
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    OME suspension, ARB Air Lockers, CBI/Relentless/Pelfrey armor, HAM radio
    You ask about "clearance" but there are at least 5 different kinds of "clearance" problems

    1. Clearance of the tire at the wheel well
    2. Clearance of the tire at the upper control arm
    3. Clearance of the wheel at the brake caliper
    4. Clearance of the bumper/frame over obstacles
    5. Clearance of the axle over obstacles.

    I'm guessing you were talking about 1 & 2.

    Yes, sometimes folks address issue 1 (tire at the wheel well) simply by adding a lift. And yes, if they do, they still rub when the suspension is compressed. Different folks have vastly differing levels of tolerance for a little bit of rubbing. (Rubbing? What rubbing? My tires don't rub!)

    However, you'll find that most folks running 33" tires with a lift have also considerably trimmed the plastic at the wheelwell, and maybe done a "cab mount chop" as well.

    If you're not running wider-than-stock tire, you shouldn't have issues with 2 - clearance at the upper control arm.

    If you're not replacing factory wheels, you won't have to worry about 3, clearance at brake caliper. This is strictly a wheel design issue - no measurement can tell you if it'll happen or not, though 17" aftermarket wheels are generally more likely to clear the calipers than 16" aftermarket wheels.

    Now, in regards to lifting, shock travel, and bumpstops:

    Now, a spacer lift or 5100s, can bottom out without hitting the factory bumpstops. Camburg posts a famous picture on their website of a case where this happened catastrophically, breaking the shock.

    Most higher grade lifts have both a LONGER spring which is also a HIGHER RATE spring. With those two factors together, they're much less likely to bottom out at all. 5100s set to a higher spring perch setting do not count, and can still bottom out without hitting the factory bumpstop.

    Also, sometimes folks will use a longer spring in combination with a small top plate spacer. Yes, in that case they're betting that they won't bottom out, or if so, won't bottom out hard, because it won't hit the bumpstop any more.

    How hard are you anticipating wheeling your truck? I wheel "old man style" slow and gentle, and pretty much never bottom out my old-man-emu springs and shocks. However, if you think you might, Wheelers has some nice enhanced bumpstops that engage gently.

    wheelers bumpstops
     
  8. May 2, 2012 at 10:54 AM
    #8
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    Oh, and you asked about Big Wheels?

    [​IMG]

    Sorry, couldn't resist. :p
     
  9. May 2, 2012 at 10:56 AM
    #9
    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    [​IMG] Hi Randy.

    Randy speaks the truth. You won't hit your bumps crawling. It takes a big hit to compress that much :anonymous:

    Damnit Steve! I had a picture saved and everything. I was waiting for the right moment. :pout:
     
  10. May 2, 2012 at 11:01 AM
    #10
    jberry813

    jberry813 The Mad Scientist

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    Is that what you were referring to this whole time in your OP...by "wheels" you actually mean tires? Cause wheels really have nothing to do with cutting through the snow.
     
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