Brake woes...

2008 Tacoma SR5 4X4 218K miles

I bought the truck used and it was from Vermont. The brake pedal was really low and not very effective. So I pulled the rear drums and sure enough the shoes were thin. I replaced the drums, shoes and hardware but didn't touch the wheel cylinders because there weren't any signs of leakage. That didn't help the braking power very much.

Tonight I installed new front rotors, pads, calipers, hard lines and flexible lines. Then had the wife help me bleed them and the pedal still doesn't have a good firm feel. I haven't driven it yet to seat the pads.

So I went to the rear brakes and tried bleeding them but didn't flush them and didn't see any signs of air in the lines.

Is there something I am missing since the truck has ABS?

 

Hopefully you peeked behind the rubber boots for signs of brake fluid.

Chances are good you’ve got air in the abs module. It’s a very common problem which happens if the reservoir is allowed to drain empty like when replacing a caliper, line, wheel cylinder. There’s a couple ways to remedy this. Slam hard on the brakes on a low traction surface. Gravel, dirt, wet pavement. Then bleed the system. It might take a few times. Or bring it to a dealership or shop with the proper techstream software to cycle the abs module to get the air out.

 

Thanks, I didn't bother to peel back all the boots on the wheel cylinders but the master did go dry. I bet that is what is wrong, I'll drive the truck and see if I can get the ABS to cycle.

 

If you do end up replacing the wheel cylinders, it’s a good idea to not push old brake fluid through the new pieces. Bleed until the fluid is coming out clean first.

I haven’t tried it myself but I’ve heard if you slightly depress the brake pedal holding it in place with a stick or something, it keeps the reservoir from draining out.

 

And make sure you properly adjust the rear drum brakes.

 

Thanks again, I have the lucky advantage of living on a dirt road. I took the truck out and did a bunch of normal stops to seat the pads. Then had a lot of fun going up to 50 mph and hammering the brakes on dirt to get the ABS to kick in, over and over. Then back in the garage the right side did put out a lot of air, and only one bubble came out on the left side. The rears have been tightened up twice, and I think they could use a little more. The truck will go on about a 200 mile trip tomorrow so I will see how the brakes are when I'm done.

Out here I only have another 4 people in the next 4 square miles.

 

I know @Jimmyh doesn't need any endorsement from me (he knows his stuff), but this is very important. There is usually a bit of a rim left on the drum after the shoes wear into it after time, that makes it difficult to remove the drum. I carefully grind this down from time to time with a flap wheel on an angle grinder. This makes it easier to remove the rear drums (multiple times) to set the adjusters properly. I never can seem to do it well from the inspection plug. I like to pull the drums and adjust them out a few clicks, reinstall and spin. Adjust them out until they are lightly dragging but you can still spin the drum by hand. You'll know you got it right when the parking brake engages after only a couple of clicks. This should take a lot of the travel out of your brake pedal since you don't have to move as much fluid when braking.

 

I have new drums in the rear and have tried adjusting them with the drums off but I can't seem to get them tight enough that way. Yes, the adjusters are very hard to get to lying on my back. I had a shop put the truck up in the air and tighten the rears with the drums on, but I think they could still use some more tightening. I bled them out again before driving the truck and the wheel spins to easy. When the pedal is depressed I can't spin the wheel, not much of a test, but it does show the wheel cylinders are working.

I can't get the nuts on the brake lines loose from the lines. They are corroded/rusted in place and the lines would have to be replaced to change the cylinders...just like the calipers in the front. That is going to have to wait.

 

Is that "W" spring contacting the rotor? It also looks like the spring isn't installed correctly.

 

If you have an old Windows laptop you can buy the cable and Techstream software on Ebay cheap. I use it for Both my Toyota and Lexus vehicles. Havent found anything that I can’t do with it yet. Programmed keys, changed settings, diagnostics.

 

If your rear wheel cylinders aren't leaking, I wouldn't worry about replacing them.
Others may disagree but that's my opinion.

 

It is installed the same way as the one in the caliper I took off, but the spring in that caliper doesn't touch the rotor like the new on does.

 

Tonight I hooked up a Snap On MODIS EEMS 300 scanner using the K-20 key and could get to the ABS section for my truck. But when I am in that menu with a long list of items like "SFRR-R/F Press REL SOL (on/off)" etc. I can use the up arrow when the 'OFF' is highlighted to highlight the 'SCROLL" and then the list scrolls to a point but will not go to the 'AIR BLEED' item. It shows in the list but it won't come up next to that line with the "ON OFF SCROLL EXIT choices. Anybody know how to get to that Air Bleed choice?

 

Looks to me that it's telling you that it doesn't have the air bleed function for the particular vehicle.

 

LOL...I kept reading that as ON/OFF...I bet you're right!

 

I just faced this issue when putting a locker in my rear diff. I pulled the axles which drained my brake fluid. Drum's were completely disassembled. I bled the brakes and master cylinder but still...brakes went to floor. I took it to a trusted shop for a full bleed and drum adjustment. Cost $390. Brakes are perfect now. The brakes on these trucks are already marginal. You want to make sure they are 100%.

 

Thanks for the advice, I did the ABS activation brake slides on a dirt road twice. First time a bunch of air came out of the right caliper and only one bubble out of the left side. Drove the truck for a few days and then did the ABS activation slides again, bleed all 4 wheels basically flushing the system and no air came out. Pulled the rear wheels again and was able to tighten up the rear adjusters about a full turn or more. Now the pedal is pretty firm but still slightly low, not as bad as it had been.

 

You’re probably good as is now.

As reference, let’s call the pedal all the way up 100%, pedal pushed all way down to the floor 0%. What percentage would you call yours?

If you followed Jimmyh’s adjustment procedure to the letter, you should be good now.

 

I am nit able to turn the rear drum adjusters with the drums on, it's just too tight back there. I have to pull the drums to tighten the adjusters, so I can't get them as tight as I would like. But overall the pedal is high enough. Thanks again for your help.