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BUG. firearm. what are your opinions

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by 4x4yota, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. tacomathom

    tacomathom Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how much a private citizen needs a back up to his/her concealed carry weapon, but shit, any reason to buy a new gun is a good one!
     
  2. Petrol

    Petrol Well-Known Member

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    Just to make sure we are all on the same page:
    B U G = Back Up Gun, as in a SECOND firearm always CARRIED ON YOUR PERSON to supplement a primary firearm also carried on your person?

    Day in, Day out, all of the time?.... while you are: working, shopping, socializing, etc. ?


    ALL OF THE TIME ! ............TWO GUNS CARRIED ON YOUR BODY.
    Not a second gun in the car, in your tool box, in your desk or in your Snoopy lunch box, ...- but a second gun on your body ALL OF THE TIME.....and you're not a LE officer, soldier in combat, body guard, professional hunter in Africa in pursuit of dangerous game?

    REALLY? I've lived in some bad places but the odds of needing deadly force are rare. The odds of Joe Citizen needing a SECOND gun are up there with winning the powerball and getting struck by lighting AT THE SAME TIME.

    If you are a responsible, law-abiding adult and you want to carry a gun - I AM TOTALLY IN YOUR CAMP. YOU ABOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE THE MEANS TO DEFEND YOURSELF OR OTHERS.

    but....

    If you think to need to carry TWO guns while you go about your daily activities and those activities do not routinely involve deadly force; I probably think you are a serious wanna-be cop or .....are just a plain little man.
     
  3. 01TacoBuz

    01TacoBuz Well-Known Member

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    It is not about a need, the likelyhood of needing a BUG is rare but the likelyhood of getting run over by a car or hit by lightning is rare also.

    Im not a wanna be cop, you could not pay me enough to be one and Im not a little man that cant handle most situations, being in martial arts for 12 years I learned more than most know about self defense but I have enough common sense to know that IM not superman, I cant stop a bullet.

    An armed law abiding citizen follows the law, thugs/punks don`t.

    I feel it is in my best interest to have an equalizer or possibly having something so that things are in my favor if ever a situation comes about.

    It is no different than being in a boxing ring before the fight hearing the ref say protect yourself at all times.

    Size of a person has nothing to do with it, being prepared for an attack of any kind does not make anyone a small person. It makes them a prepared person, regardless if they have 1 or 2 firearms on them.

    I pity the big bad man that tries to attack my 4ft9in wife. There is a good chance they will be carried away in a bag. Most people do not know this but a woman that has as much training and shooting as the average man has, can outshoot most men.

    I urge every law abiding citizen to have a firearm within arms reach if possible everywhere they go and get firearm safety/handling training. Then shoot/draw as often as possible with your favorite EDC piece.

    You dont need an AR to go deer hunting but if that is your choice than so be it. You dont need a tank but if you can afford one, then so be it.

    It is your right to keep and bear arms, including carrying 10 on your person if you choose to do so.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT A NEED. IT`S YOUR CHOICE
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  4. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Don't taze me bro!

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    This pretty much sums it up. You're in a thread about BUGs so if you don't approve for whatever reason you're in the wrong thread.

    It's not up to you to determine how many guns & carry & when anymore than an anti-2A person deciding I shouldn't have a gun at all. If I wanna carry a firearm on my hip & a smaller BUG on my ankle, pocket or up my ass for all I care who are you to criticize my choice? Seems pretty judgmental to me.
     
  5. Nicky Lam

    Nicky Lam Dog Face Soldier

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    M&P shield 9mm, great conceal carry, comes with 7 and 8 round mags

    I also carry a kimber pro carry 2 for the colder months as it's less concealable. Comes with 7 round mag but I have 3, 8 round mags for it as well

    I carry jacketed hollow points in both 9mm and .45

    But I never thought about carrying both, at the same time, now you've got ME thinking crazy


    If your set on .380... Can't go wrong with the ruger lap

    image.jpg
     
  6. Nicky Lam

    Nicky Lam Dog Face Soldier

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    And my kimber pro carry 2, this serves more as my night stand gun, go to, do it all gun.

    A few long guns are readily avail. If SHTF

    If there's one thing I learned from being in the military, you gotta have a back up, to the back up, and then that has to have a back up.

    Better to have and not need, than to need, and not have

    image.jpg
     
  7. fjfar80

    fjfar80 Well-Known Member

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    4x4yota -

    Here are my thoughts based on numerous factors - and these are just my thoughts based on the average citizen carrying a concealed pistol in their normal "low threat" environment:

    The idea of a BUG is to have a 2nd resource to fall back on if you're primary resource fails. So, in weighing the decision to do so you need to weigh the pros and cons. The pros are pretty simple, you have a secondary gun in a fairly (and I say fairly because BUGs are usually not carried in as easily an accessible spot as a primary) accessible location on your body should your primary weapon fail you in a gunfight.

    Now, the cons - additional item to conceal (if you're a CCW permit holder), additional weight, additional holster, and additional training.

    Onto the practical aspects - if a primary weapon goes down in a fight it's usually caused by one of two things - (1) malfunction in feeding / extracting a round from a magazine or (2) bad ammo.

    I say usually, because most of the problems are caused by one of the above - yes, there are other reasons but, I don't have 30 minutes to cover every possible malfunction you can experience with a handgun. In my 30+ years of shooting I have seen or experienced almost every type of handgun malfunction - heck, I experienced a malfunction in my 3Gun Glock at my last match that no one and I mean no one had ever seen before - so, I know a few things about gun malfunctions.

    When faced with one of the two primary malfunctions above - clearing the malfunction is usually faster than deploying a BUG. Even if you have a BUG the first process (automatic in most folks) is to clear the malfunction - not to reach for a BUG. Clearing a stovepipe, a failure to extract, a failure to fire, a failure to feed, etc. are all fairly easy and fast to clear - if you train to do so. The absolute worst malfunction you can get from one of the two primary factors above is a low charge round that fires but fails to cycle the gun and results in the bullet stuck midway down the barrel. That's a "your primary weapon is out of the fight" malfunction. Even an over-charged handgun round will usually not result in a catastrophic mechanical failure.

    Back to the speed comparison, reaching for a BUG usually requires you to re-holster your primary weapon (I don't recommend just tossing your primary on the ground) and gaining purchase on your secondary and bringing it into the fight. We have run comparisons in our classes where we compare the speed of clearing a "normal" malfunction to bringing a BUG on target - the malfunction cleaning is always faster. The biggest problem is that while most people do very little training at all with their primary - almost no one spends time practicing re-holstering their primary and drawing their secondary.

    There's also the practical - if you have time to (a) deploy a primary, (b) experience a primary malfunction, (c) attempt to clear the malfunction, (d) decide to go to secondary, (e) holster your primary, (f) present your secondary, and (g) engage your target with the secondary - well...you get the picture...you're either in a really bad situation or you're going to need a really good attorney.

    So, my personal opinion is to carry a quality firearm that you train a lot with - with good magazines and high quality ammo. Shoot that combination a lot in practice and perform all the primary and preventable maintenance to that weapon. In doing so, you should be good-to-go.

    However, if you do choose to carry a BUG... make sure you train with it. Get yourself a timer and practice until you can get a sub 2 to 3 second switch from your primary to your secondary. That's from primary failure and decision to go to BUG to getting your BUG on target and in the fight. Most civilian self-defense situations last less that 4 seconds from the first gun coming out to the last shot being fired (with the exception of "active shooter" situations - those can range from seconds to minutes). So, keep that timeframe in mind while you are training.

    Anyway, sorry for the long post but, I thought I would share my thoughts.

    - Mark
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  8. aficianado

    aficianado Well-Known Member

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    my "dark days" gun is my glock. figured it was the burly one that can stand infrequent cleanings..while looting for food.
     
  9. DeltaSteve

    DeltaSteve Social Critic

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  10. OH-MAN

    OH-MAN Well-Known Member

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    Hard to beat a quality snubby.
    I like the S&W airweights and Colt products.
    You could be pretty sure one that has been sitting around for ohh say like a hundred years if picked up and put to use, will work as needed.
    Simple and proven!
     
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