1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Bump steer!

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Jasond87, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. Oct 1, 2016 at 7:52 PM
    #1
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    So I've been lurking on here for a while now, and after a lot of reading I decided to go with Bilstein 6112's at the 4th notch(about 2.5"), LR UCA's along with new oem LCA's(worn bushings/seized cam bolts). Without having the alignment sheet in front of me I can tell you my camber and toe specs were close to 0* and my caster is 2.5, and it's got pretty annoying bump steer and is a little sketchy on the highway. I read somewhere on here that too much caster can actually cause bump steer but a lot of people recommend 2.5+ of caster. So should I try 3* or try going down a bit?

    P.S. Tires are 265/75/16 Falken Wildpeak at3w on SCS f5
     
    jpereira2 likes this.
  2. Oct 1, 2016 at 8:00 PM
    #2
    tommie594

    tommie594 42

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Member:
    #166288
    Messages:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tommie
    Huffman, TX
    Vehicle:
    2009 Speedway Blue Tacoma TRD Sport
    I would try to set caster as high as possible.. do the right side 1st then set the left side about 1 degree lower than the right to compensate for road crown. i would try and keep camber as close to zero as possible...
     
    Ruggybuggy and billygoat like this.
  3. Oct 1, 2016 at 8:28 PM
    #3
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    Thanks for the response! I think I may try 3-3.5 but I really don't want to pay for multiple alignments to get it riding right.
     
    TXpro4X4 likes this.
  4. Oct 2, 2016 at 5:42 AM
    #4
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    Anyone else have some suggestions??
     
  5. Oct 2, 2016 at 6:14 PM
    #5
    billygoat

    billygoat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Member:
    #75588
    Messages:
    344
    Gender:
    Male
    American Southwest
    Vehicle:
    08 TRD Offroad 4x4
    6” Fabtech Lift, 35’s, lots o’ goodies
    I had been battling bump steer ever since I lifted my Tacoma with LR UCA's too, and what Tommie said is spot on. While 2.5 degrees of caster is good, staggering the caster is even better. I finally found an AWESOME alignment shop, and they took their time and road tested it a few times and ended up with 2.5 degrees on one side and 3.5 on the other. It really did make a noticeable difference. I was sure to mark everything really well with a white-out pen as soon as I got home.

    It's also worth mentioning that this was at the only shop that ever adjusted the angle of the ball joints in the control arms. I found them by calling around and asking if they have ever worked with the LR UCA specifically. Lots of shops said sure, we've worked with shims before, and tried to explain to me how how cams and shims work. NOPE. Not what I asked. In my experience, most alignment techs won't touch the ball joints even if I give them a diagram and explain how they work.

    As for too much caster, I think you have to go REALLY overboard with these trucks to achieve that. After one shop really screwed up so bad they didn't even charge me (kept me waiting 3 hours for an alignment that was still out of spec), I had 2.5 degrees on one side and almost 6 on the other. It was tolerable, even on the freeway. I drove it like that for about a month before replacing a control arm under warranty and having the alignment done again. I can't say if the bad alignment contributed to the control arm breaking, but it was a typical break for the older design that has since been corrected.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  6. Oct 2, 2016 at 7:07 PM
    #6
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    I don't really feel the truck pulling away from the crown in the road. So do you think I should try *3.0 on the left side and *3.5+ on the right?

    I forgot to mention I also installed a 1/4 spacer on the drivers side if that's something I should try to compensate for as well?
     
  7. Oct 2, 2016 at 7:23 PM
    #7
    billygoat

    billygoat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Member:
    #75588
    Messages:
    344
    Gender:
    Male
    American Southwest
    Vehicle:
    08 TRD Offroad 4x4
    6” Fabtech Lift, 35’s, lots o’ goodies
    I have a 1/4 spacer on the driver side too, and I didn't feel it pulling to one side more than the other either honestly. The manager didn't give a great reason for the difference in castor, but said sometimes uneven weight can do that. Our trucks definitely have more weight on the driver side. I didn't hear about the road crown argument until just now, but I didn't talk to the tech either, just the guy in charge.
     
  8. Oct 3, 2016 at 9:54 AM
    #8
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    I wold like to hear other people's experiences who have had bump steer and their alignment specs. I know some people have stock UCA's and get about 1.8 caster and like how it drives but then other people have aftermarket UCA's at 3+ and like it. I've also read that too much caster can cause bump steer so I don't want to go in the wrong direction.
     
  9. Oct 3, 2016 at 11:30 AM
    #9
    nd4spdbh

    nd4spdbh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Member:
    #114055
    Messages:
    14,604
    Gender:
    Male
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    13 DCSB TRD OR v6 Auto

    Dont compensate for road crown... freeways are flat or banked in both directions depending on the curve. Compensating for "road crown" is a joke IMO and will only lead to a truck that doesnt track straight.

    Get each side as even as possible.

    I had stock ucas on my 1.75in lifted front at ~ 1.5* of caster with no negative camber.

    Put on SPC UCA's and had the alignment guy do 3.4* Of caster with -0.4* of camber (for more even inside to outside tire wear) and 0.1* of toe in per side. Man o man, ignorance is bliss, truck drives SOOOOO much better now.
     
    TacoTim85 likes this.
  10. Oct 3, 2016 at 1:02 PM
    #10
    BDub

    BDub Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Member:
    #163961
    Messages:
    1,600
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brandon
    Byrnes Mill, MO
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB Off-Road
    6112's up front on 4th notch but with the allpro UCA's.

    Truck drives great at these specs.

     
  11. Oct 3, 2016 at 1:20 PM
    #11
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    Thanks guys! I'm going to try 3.4 caster and see how that handles!
     
  12. Oct 3, 2016 at 1:51 PM
    #12
    JeffreyB

    JeffreyB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Member:
    #166880
    Messages:
    1,809
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeff
    Vehicle:
    2015 Access Cab 2.7 5 Speed 4X4
    Well... Freeways are crowned, at least around here. Obviously not in curves but on straight road they are. That being said I wouldn't adjust for it either, because if you are in the passing lane it is adjusted in the wrong direction and will make the pull worse. Secondary streets generally aren't crowned either so it won't be quite right.
     
  13. Oct 3, 2016 at 2:50 PM
    #13
    tranandya

    tranandya Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Member:
    #82313
    Messages:
    92
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Andy
    Orange County
    Vehicle:
    07 DCLB TRD SPORT
    5100 885x LR UCA 1.5AAL FIRESTONE RIDE-RITE w/DAYSTAR CRADLEs
    +3 Caster. 0 Toe. 0 Camber. Perfect # to me.
     
  14. Oct 3, 2016 at 5:29 PM
    #14
    billygoat

    billygoat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Member:
    #75588
    Messages:
    344
    Gender:
    Male
    American Southwest
    Vehicle:
    08 TRD Offroad 4x4
    6” Fabtech Lift, 35’s, lots o’ goodies
    I'm not going to say that even caster is a bad thing, because usually it is important for handling, but I think that for certain applications there really is a solid argument for less caster on the heavier side. My reasoning relates to how caster works:

    Caster is the angle of the axis of rotation that your steering knuckles rotate on when you turn. This means that caster values different from zero tilt the tire slightly onto its shoulder when you turn, giving it temporary pos or neg camber. Since the weight of the vehicle on that side is pushing straight down, it's trying to force the tire back down to zero camber, which in turn forces the tire to point straight ahead (to help visualize it, imagine having 90 degrees of caster--your wheels would just tilt side to side instead of turning left or right). This means there is more 'straightening force' on the heavier side, which pushes the tire more aggressively towards flat/straight.

    In reality the tire just deforms slightly instead of lifting up onto a corner, but the effect is the same. The tire is acting like a spring when you turn, trying to level out and point straight. This extra resistive force that tries to point one wheel straight more than the other is kind of like bump steer, since bump steer is caused by unbalanced forces trying to direct the tires (if you hit a bump at an angle with the left tire, then there is more force directing the left tire, and the truck pulls to one side). If you give the truck less caster on the heavier side, you will get closer to equal resistive force on either side of the vehicle when you turn, making it comparable to an evenly weighted vehicle with even caster on both sides.

    I looked at my alignment spec sheet, and sure enough the shop gave my truck a full degree less of caster on the driver side, which is by far the heavier side. I have a 1/4" spacer on the driver side to compensate for the weight, and my truck is still sagging more on the driver side from the uneven weight distribution. My handling was tolerable (for me) when I had even caster, but it really did improve after the shop I went to gave the passenger side more caster.

    As for too much caster, some cars (like BMW's) are specified to have 6-8 degrees of caster stock. I had close to 6 for a while due to a tech who didn't know what he was doing, and it honestly wasn't that terrible (still bad, just not as bad as 0 caster).
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
    TacoTim85 likes this.
  15. Oct 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM
    #15
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    Does this look good? I'm still getting a little bump steer. I'm playing around with the tire pressure now to see if that helps.

    image.jpg
     
  16. Oct 6, 2016 at 4:43 PM
    #16
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    Anyone have any suggestions on what else could be causing bump steer?
     
  17. Oct 7, 2016 at 7:19 AM
    #17
    jibski

    jibski Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Member:
    #143175
    Messages:
    202
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Josh
    Arvada, CO
    Vehicle:
    2009 Silver 2.7 AC 4X4
    I wouldn't go quite as high as possible. I did this initially and ended up at 6.1 caster on both sides. I didn't really notice bump steer but it was noticeably more difficult to turn the wheel and I was concerned it was putting added stress on the power steering system. I since adjusted my LR UCAs and got my caster down to 3 3. Very happy there.
     
  18. Oct 9, 2016 at 5:48 AM
    #18
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    Anyone else battle bump steer? I'm starting to think it may be my tires? I had my tires installed before I got my suspension, but I also got an alignment at the same time, I thought it was the alignment because I never got a printout of the specs. So I went to another shop to get another alignment and they told me my my LCA bushings were going and my cam bolts were seized. So I got new OEM LCAs and while I was at it I got new suspension and UCAs. The bump steer isn't bad, the steering wheel moves an inch or two left or right, and it's only when the wheel is straight.
     
  19. Oct 12, 2016 at 6:57 PM
    #19
    Jasond87

    Jasond87 [OP] Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Member:
    #198685
    Messages:
    27
    Gender:
    Male
    Salem, MA.
    Vehicle:
    2010 Tacoma dclb Sport Timberland Mica
    Bilstein 6112, LR uca, 1.5 AAL rear
    So I've searched like a mad man and narrowed it down to either the tires themselves or something in the steering column/shafts. But there is no play in the steering itself, And there are no noises whatsoever. So does anyone have experience with any issues in the steering column that didn't have play or make noise?
     
  20. Oct 12, 2016 at 11:20 PM
    #20
    k3v11n

    k3v11n Yeah? No!

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Member:
    #152106
    Messages:
    1,285
    Gender:
    Male
    Oahu, Hawaii
    Vehicle:
    2015 SR PreRunner Oahu Edition
    PlastiDip
    What is your tire pressure at? When I got my new Duratracs, I was running them at 42 psi. Dropped them down to about 35 psi and it got rid of the bump steer.
     

Products Discussed in

To Top