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buying a AR

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by BlazeTaco, May 6, 2011.

  1. May 6, 2011 at 10:14 AM
    #1
    BlazeTaco

    BlazeTaco [OP] Well-Known Member

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  2. May 6, 2011 at 11:10 AM
    #2
    Apricotshot

    Apricotshot Well-Known Member

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    What's your Budget? Good .308 AR's are kind of pricey.
     
  3. May 6, 2011 at 11:13 AM
    #3
    bikerz

    bikerz Member

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  4. May 6, 2011 at 1:47 PM
    #4
    Packman73

    Packman73 ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    Look at LMT. They are a 'top tier' company.
     
  5. May 6, 2011 at 3:46 PM
    #5
    scrappletaco

    scrappletaco Damn Deer and Idoit Drivers

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    armalite spend the money and get a good ar10. but it up to ur budget.
     
  6. May 10, 2011 at 7:23 AM
    #6
    JDCPA

    JDCPA Well-Known Member

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    I have a Bushmaster AR15. I like the chrome bore and bolt group for easy cleaning. The chrome is, IMHO, worth every penny it costs. Most ARs do not have the chrome treatment and are much more likely to get dirty and jam. This was the problem with the original M-16s in the Nam until Colt chromed everything.
     
  7. May 10, 2011 at 7:35 AM
    #7
    Packman73

    Packman73 ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    The Vietnam era M-16s were shipped without cleaning rods or cleaning kits and they switched powders when they fielded them. It didn't have anything to do with chrome lined bores. It was the switching to a cheaper powder, that wasn't tested with the rifle, and the belief that the rifle was self cleaning.
     
  8. May 10, 2011 at 7:51 AM
    #8
    Jedi7Taco

    Jedi7Taco Well-Known Member

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    Stuff...
    ^^exactly
     
  9. May 10, 2011 at 8:15 AM
    #9
    JDCPA

    JDCPA Well-Known Member

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    You are partially right, the original M-16s were shipped w/o cleaning kits, did not have a chrome bore or chamber and jammed rather quickly from the buildup of carbon in the gas impingement system. It didn't matter where the ammo came from. The M-16A1 modifications consisted of chroming the bore and chamber, adding a forward assist to clear jammed rounds and the weapon was issued with a cleaning kit. The M16-A2 added a three shot burst mode and, IIRC, a chromed bolt group.
     
  10. May 10, 2011 at 8:51 AM
    #10
    Apricotshot

    Apricotshot Well-Known Member

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    Back on topic:

    I have a LMT MWS .308Win. With a 16 inch Chrome Lined barrel. It is very accurate, I can hit 10inch plates all day at 500yds only using a 1-5x Leupold Mark 4. Down side is that it is a heavy SOB (11lbs+or-). In the .308 AR game heavy is the standard. Unless you fork over $4500+ for a Knights Arm. SR25 EMC(8lbs or so).
    Of course the LMT is hardly cheap at $2400+. Add another $700 to that if you want a stainless steel barrel in 18 or 20inches. My 16inch CL barrel works for my needs and I may never buy the stainless.

    I have had 2 other .308 AR's both DPMS.

    First one was a 16inch flat top carbine I got for $1100. I used a ACOG TA01B (4x .308 calibration) on it and it performed well. But I wanted to get into a more precision based setup at the time, so I sold it.

    Second was the SASS model for $1400. I used a 3.5x10 Leupold Mark 4 and even had a YHM .308 suppressor for it. It was heavy and never grouped that well for me no matter the rounds I tried. Looked cool though. The SASS was a dissapointment for me. I sold it to a friend that has since sold it to another, so that might tell you something. But that is just conjecture.
     
  11. May 10, 2011 at 8:58 AM
    #11
    Packman73

    Packman73 ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    I'm 100% right. The cartridge was developed for use with extruded ("stick") powder. But the military was set up to use ball powder at its GOCO plants. But the powder manufacturing process left an excess of calcium in the ball powder. This had never caused a problem with other rifles and cartridges, but it clogged the gas tube of the M16. The chroming of the bore was good, but did not either create or fix the gas tube problem. A change in the powder manufacturing process did that.
     
  12. May 10, 2011 at 11:09 AM
    #12
    Sleeper362

    Sleeper362 One Convenient Locations ......In Africa

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    LMT, LWRC REPR, FN SCAR 17, Armalite AR-10 and your golden. Anything else I would not mess with. While all my suggestions cost a good bit more than some options, you get what you pay for when it comes to AR's, and just like truck parts if you buy something that you will end up repairing/replacing down the road, you were better off buying the more expensive piece the first go around. "Poor people cannot afford to buy cheap stuff."- Yvonne Chouinard
     
  13. May 10, 2011 at 5:15 PM
    #13
    JDCPA

    JDCPA Well-Known Member

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    In my experience it doesn't matter what kind of powder you use, the bolt jams from carbon buildup because of the way the gas impingement system is designed. Stoner personally started a lot of noise about the use of ball powder because he was taking a great deal of flack about the design defect.

    Previous weapons like the Garand M-1, the Mini 14 and the AK 47 use an indirect system and do not jam like the M-16/AR-15. The jamming problem is a result use of the direct gas impingement system. That is why the new piston systems are all the rage now. They don't jam even with ball powder.

    The bottom line is that if you don't keep the gas tube of the M16/AR15 immaculately clean it jams. I don't care what kind of powder you use. The only difference is that it happens a little faster with ball powder. Chrome chambers, bores and bolt groups delay the jamming but only keeping the weapon clean prevents it.

    If you want to put what I say to the test buy a supply of any brand of ammo with any type of powder you want. Start shooting through an AR that does not have a chrome chamber and bore and see if you can get 1000 rounds down range before it jams.

    Then try the same thing with an AR with a chromed bore and chamber like my Bushmaster. You should be able to fire the 1000 rounds without a jam.

    I'll buy you lunch on my next trip out west if you actualy are able to fire all 1000 rounds without a jam in the unchromed unit.

    Of course, no cleaning allowed.
     
  14. May 10, 2011 at 6:09 PM
    #14
    showmeballer

    showmeballer Well-Known Member

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    +1

    These are REALLY nice to and it would be my first choice followed by the LMT and LWRC. http://larueosr.com/

    The Knights SR25 is awesome as well, but it has a healthy price tag. The SCAR is one ugly motherfucker IMO, and I wouldn't pay that kind of coin for a plastic rifle. :cheers:
     
  15. May 10, 2011 at 6:30 PM
    #15
    Packman73

    Packman73 ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    Get on any gun forum and check out threads on semi auto precion rifles. More than half of those guys will tell you they don't clean their barrels (not chrome-lined) for a great duration of rounds. Some guys go over a thousand. Some guys NEVER clean their barrels. That being said, I'm a chromed guy and do not currenty have a non-chrome-lined one to shoot nor the ammo to waste but if you'd like to supply both, I'd gladly take you up on lunch.:)
     
  16. May 10, 2011 at 6:37 PM
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    Apricotshot

    Apricotshot Well-Known Member

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  17. May 10, 2011 at 7:53 PM
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    Sleeper362

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    Damn I didn't know Larue was producing big chassis ARs. I also forgot about the SR25. I also have read that Remington is about to drop a tactical big chassis AR, but its almost as much as a knights. KA and Armalite are about the only two rifles that I consider worth the troubles of dealing with a gas gun anymore.

    Sorry to thread jack but I have an honest question for those in the know, why would someone want a 16" .308 AR? Here is my thinking, yes it will always have more knockdown power in the short range, but can a 16" barreled .308 really make use of the rounds capabilities? I would think that if someone wanted knock down power under 500 yards a 16" barreled 6.8SPC or even a *gasp* 5.56 will do the job fine or am I off base here? I have seen the damage a 5.56 can do at over 300 yards, and they do work pretty well.
     
  18. May 10, 2011 at 7:58 PM
    #18
    Hunter.V.White

    Hunter.V.White Well-Known Member

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  19. May 10, 2011 at 8:56 PM
    #19
    showmeballer

    showmeballer Well-Known Member

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    A .308 will always be better than a 5.56 or 6.8 no matter what the distance is and from a 16 inch barrel the loss in velocity compared to a M24 is only 150fps or so.

    This is not a big enough loss to really hinder the rifle and the cartridge for it's intended purpose( a semi-auto sniper rifle). Wind drift will play a much larger role with the smaller calibers like you mentioned as well.

    Depending on the use of the rifle, a 5.56 or 6.8 may be just fine, but I've never heard anyone complain about having a more powerful weapon. :cheers:
     
  20. May 11, 2011 at 1:15 AM
    #20
    BlazeTaco

    BlazeTaco [OP] Well-Known Member

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    That Armalite AR-10t with the 20in barrel definitely interests me. And is at a decent price.:)
     
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