Can I get some advice on alignment after slight lift? Think the shop screwed it up

It's a bit on the low side, but you COULD get away with it. Me personally I'd be much happier seeing you in the mid two range for caster at minimum. Low caster will cause too much road crown (when your tires get pulled in the direction of the cracks or deviations in the road. Too much caster on these trucks will cause issues turning the wheels at a stop, so there is a happy medium which must be achieved.

The axle could be very well be twisted from the install... But I really can't say. If it indeed is not then you need to investigate an axle base plate shim option or a backing plate which allows the rear toe to change in the direction you need it to, be aware there are different thicknesses available, as the backing plates do not allow for variable adjustments.

 

"toe n go" can be done in 5 mins. hope you didn't pay too much...

 

Yeah I'm about to go get my money back, I'm pissed. I also gave these guys a blown out rim/tire off an old yota pickup to switch out and they gave it back to me with the blown tire on saying 'we tried everything, even an angle grinder'. Popped it off with a couple of prybars and I find a big ol grinder gash in the rim...

 

Cool, I'll do some more reading on the base plate shims. I'm going to take it to another shop and now I more or less understand what I'm looking to get so it should make it much easier to tell if they know what they're doing before I give them my money. Def has pretty bad road crown at the moment, and at highway speeds absolutely no inclination for the wheel to return to center, if you get it dead center it pulls to the left but also it'll just kind of drift whichever way it's pointed.

Thanks a lot for the help.

 

The more I look at it, that's because you are in a situation of negative caster which is never good to have on any vehicle. You always positive caster because that allows the wheels and ultimately the suspension and driving assembly to lead while you are driving. In your situation your suspension and driving assembly is basically trailing. The equal to a computer chair with those swiveling casters which trail while you move it to its location.

Definitely get that fixed ASAP and stay off the highway because that is not safe at all.

 

Hah, the office chair is a great description, makes total sense. Yeah it drives like shit, def getting it sorted before I put any real miles on it. Luckily no highways up here I just did a little backroad speeding to get a feel for it.

 

Well I just went and got my money back, that was easy at least but the tech kept telling me as long as the caster is matching on both sides it's 'not going to cause tire wear so it's fine like that'. So I took the printout to the other shop which has a bunch of old guys that seem to know what they're talking about and they told me the same thing. I had the printout from the FSM with me too which calls for bare minimum 1' caster and they didn't seem concerned that it was so far out of spec.
The first shop was just being lazy but the second one I was trying to give them my money and they were telling me don't bother it looks fine as is. I had the printout from the FSM with me too which calls for bare minimum 1' caster and they didn't seem concerned that it was so far out of spec. Is the positive caster just a toyota thing? Weird to me that no one knows what I'm talking about when I tell them what I'm looking for. They were like sure we can try to get it to your specs but I'd much rather find a place that understands where those specs are coming from... Guess I have to look a little further out and start calling places.

 

Hopefully you have more than just those two options for alignments where you live...with the shop I go to, I can give them the exact numbers I want for caster/camber/toe and that's what they'll give me. They don't tell me 'but you're alignment is fine', they just take my money and do it. Both those shops sound like their being lazy to me, but I wasn't there to hear/see for myself. Doesn't make sense they'd turn you down. Did you tell them it's still pulling on you? That should be enough for them to at least put it up on their rack and see the numbers for themselves.

 

Yeah the first guys offered to re-do it but I'm just sick of dealing with them and the second guys were def willing to try and get it to the numbers I gave them, I just thought it was weird that they didn't get what I was saying about caster at all. Everything I'm reading says with some lift and factory UCAs it's kind of a balancing act between getting the caster as high as possible while keeping the camber low, if I tell them I want 3.0 caster they're probably not going to be able to get there and they might give me too much camber trying to so I want a tech who knows what I'm going for rather than to just give them numbers.

 

But then again this is all new to me I don't really know what I'm talking about beyond what I've read on here, that's why I'm trying to find an alignment tech who actually does know... I called some dudes I know who do custom fab work around here and got a couple recs from them, going to try talking to a couple shops.

 

You're right, with factory UCAs you won't be getting 3˚ caster with 0 camber, I can get that with SPC UCAs installed but not without them...you have to compromise on one to get more of the other. But they should at least be able to get you 1.5˚ caster with acceptable camber numbers, unless there's something else at play that's preventing that from happening (something bent, something seized, something broken, etc.). But any good alignment shop will be able to tell you that.

 

Thanks, this is what I'm looking for. Can I ask what you consider acceptable camber? Are we talking .7 or more like .5 or under? Having a hard time getting a feel for where the line is between how much camber it's reasonable to sacrifice for more caster.

 

Positive caster is an every vehicle thing.

Just to give you an example of how critical it is to be in the positive range, Dodge with all their Chargers, 300s (and most likely Challenger) series vehicles give them as much as 9 degrees of positive caster.

Think of it this way, streetbikes and Choppers have an incredibly high degree of caster. Why is this? Because it is critical that the wheel be the lead and not the follower which makes it easier to absorb deviations on the road and increases overall stability. It also ensures that you track straight as an arrow. Some vehicles like higher caster over others but the architecture of the chassis and the suspension system are influencers of how much is exactly needed.

Another sidenote. Camber is best at 0 on both sides for maximum tire life. Negative camber aids in turning abilities and reducing scrubbing while turning. For example, the specs on my truck for alignment are as follows:

3.2 - 3.4* Caster
-0.3 - -0.5* Camber
Toe is set to .08 - .09 as needed

I rotate my tires on a regular basis every 5,000 miles and the wear pattern is stellar. The truck turns on rails for a truck and tracks straight as an arrow all on All Terrain tires.

 

Cool, that makes sense. Having a hard time understanding how both shops in town, decent sized shops with like 4 bays each and 5 star reviews are both trying to tell me that -0.1 caster is acceptable since it 'wont wear my tires'. It drives like I'm floating around on water, it's not even anywhere near the factory spec, let alone with the lift and none of these guys see the issue... This is why I do my own work. Even if I'm learning on the spot I'm more confident in myself than 90% of the shops out there.

 

That's because they are first class morons.

You do not allow any vehicle to go negative caster and if you were to drive that thing on the highway the chance is high that you would get into a wreck. I guarantee you that if you lived anywhere else and drove on highways that you would had by now and these bozos would have had a MASSIVE lawsuit for not at least recommending you adjust your caster back into tolerable ranges.

Ideally you want less than a .5* cross caster difference between the left and right side to avoid drifting left or right, so you are good there, but the fact you are negative is a really bad thing.

 

That is just a toe n go, if they had tried to adjust the caster they would have gotten a few degrees out of it and a reasonable camber, but clearly they didn't even loosen the bolts to try and adjust it cause the numbers are the same. Alot of people also forget that toyota does alignments, and often has specials. The good thing about that is usually the techs know what they are doing, love toyota's, and every one of them has seen a lifted tacoma or 4runner. When I got my 2.5" lift on my GX470, I took it to toyota and they nailed it maxing out caster with acceptable camber, I eventually wanted more and got upper control arms, but they did literally the best they could in the adjustment range, and its not that straight forward. If you had aftermarket uppers, I bet an aftermarket place would do it just fine cause the caster is already built in.

Unless they are familiar with lifted trucks, they wont know you want caster maxed and camber as close as possible after that, so be sure to mention it and if you see a sheet where caster is the same as before you started.. ask them to redo it.

 

I mean honestly I don't really look at Caster unless I absolutely KNOW they have it modded in one way or another or have whacked a curb, hit a humongous pothole or something and then in which case I will inform them that they should have caster corrected or can or both if it is adjustable either by manufacturer or via some sort of aftermarket method.

 

I wish I had saved some of my old alignment printouts from before I had my SPCs installed....unfortunately I wasn't too keen on the numbers back then, I just cared that it drove straight. Now I pay attention to the numbers (caster mostly) because anything under 3˚ means my tires rub the pinch weld like crazy (33" tires).

I don't remember exactly what the camber was then, but I do remember I always had my caster in the 1 - 1.5˚ range before I started requesting 3˚

My local Toyota dealer won't align my truck because of my Kings/SPC UCAs. They referred me to a custom place instead. Just depends on the dealer I guess

 

Here in colorado, every alignment shop has seen a lifted tacoma and 4runner. When you lift one more than 1.5" it needs caster adjustment unless you buy upper control arms, and then it all needs adjustment.
In places were every tacoma isn't lifted, I would proabaly take it to toyota or an offroad shop, cause an offroad shop would know hopefully, and toyota wouldn't let it leave with bad numbers like that.
I wouldn't even drive a car with 0 caster. I think 1.5-2 is just about the minumum.
On my GX caster is like 5-6 now with the upper arms, and that thing tracks straight at 90mph now with a lift and 285's etc... where before in the 2 range it needed constant small corrections to keep it perfectly straight.

this is the alignment I got after new steering rack. about 2" lift on stock arms.
I asked them to max out caster, get camber in range, and toe it, and it drives great.
Still if I drove at higher speeds more often, I would get upper arms for this car too and put it in the 4+ range caster wise.

 

On the topic of the rear numbers being off, I've experienced that as well after I installed my All Pro Expo leaf springs. Apparently I didn't line the axle up perfectly straight when torquing everything down and now it sits about 1/2" closer to the cab on one side than it does on the other. This creates a pretty significant pull while on the highway especially.

I have some axle shims I need to install soon so when I have the U-bolts loosened to do that, I plan on trying to straighten the axle out to correct it