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can valves be adjusted on 2.7 with 200,000 ?

Discussion in '4 Cylinder' started by Dustrider, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. Dec 2, 2011 at 8:54 PM
    #1
    Dustrider

    Dustrider [OP] Well-Known Member

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    98 taco 4x4 cold stalls
    runs Ok otherwise, slight rough idle, just Ok power, 21 mpg
    replaced or checked all engine control systems from the ECM to the fuel pump

    the concensus is that it needs valves
    dealer mech said compression is : #1-140/#2-150/#3-180/#4-190
    valves are tight
    three toyo mechanics at three dealers say that the valves on a toyota 2.7 cannot be adjusted
    when I ask why they just shrug and say they cant

    my manual shows the proceedure for adjusting the shim and bucket mess

    will it cause any problems at 202,000 miles ?
     
  2. Dec 2, 2011 at 9:26 PM
    #2
    saugus

    saugus Well-Known Member

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    Maybe check a head shop for prices on valve jobs. A long while back I got one for $250. Probably a lot more now.
     
  3. Dec 2, 2011 at 9:28 PM
    #3
    steve o 77

    steve o 77 braaap

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    you can adjust them as far as I know. You just need to know how far out of tolerance they are, and order the correct thickness shims to make up for it. Only thing is the valves have to be removed from the head.
     
  4. Dec 2, 2011 at 9:40 PM
    #4
    joes06tacoma

    joes06tacoma Well-Known Member

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    I haven't done it on a 2.7, or anything else that is shim adjusted, but I am sure it's just a matter of following the procedure in the book. It won't hurt the motor to get the valve clearance back in spec, and it might even out the compression.

    I had a 22R in my 86 Toyota truck that I had a rebuilt engine installed in. It idled rough, they guy who adjusted the valves had them way too tight. I had one cylinder with 150psi compression, the others were all at 180psi. Once I figured out the valve clearance was almost zero and had them adjusted, the motor smoothed out and the compression was 180 on all four.

    The only question is whether or not you have already burned a valve from running them too tight.

    Good luck. And you might want to find another mechanic if you don't do this yourself. These guys are either miss informed, or they don't feel like dealing with the shim and bucket "mess".:rolleyes:
     
  5. Dec 3, 2011 at 10:10 AM
    #5
    Dustrider

    Dustrider [OP] Well-Known Member

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    shim and bucket
    install thinner shim to let the valve close
    valves get tuliped from overrevving on high compression engines
    previous owner probably like revving

    the factory toyota manual I have says there is a SST (special service tool) to pry down on the bucket and remove the shim with a magnet (without removing the cam )
    but common sense tells me it would have to be done NOT at TDC or it could bend the valve stem if it hits the piston when prying down
    although the adjustment must be done at TDC valves shut ,
    I suppose another tragedy could occurr if a keeper popped out while removing a shim
    so maybe it would be safer to remove the cams

    I do it on my motorcycle with shim and bucket , usually just need checked because I am a low revver
    I got a riding buddy who is a successful MC mechanic with his own shop and when nobodys looking he sands the shims down instead of using up the overpriced new ones
    shim and bucket valve adjustment on a motorcycle is almost $1,000

    Then as a consumer of service product, I cant understand why 3 toyota dealer mechanics said the 2.7 valves are not adjustable and it needs the $2000 valve job [/sarcasm]
     
  6. Dec 3, 2011 at 1:25 PM
    #6
    1moonshine2

    1moonshine2 Well-Known Member

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    The older 2.7 (3RZ-FE) engine has (which is what your engine should be) has a shim and bucket valve train, which is adjustable by changing the shims. The valve lash can be checked to see if it's correct by removing the valve cover and following the proper procedure.

    The newer 2.7 (2TR-FE) engine has roller cam followers, and automatic hydraulic lash adjusters, and is NOT manually adjustable. I think some of the mechanics giving you advice are confusing the two.
     
  7. Dec 4, 2011 at 12:18 AM
    #7
    Dustrider

    Dustrider [OP] Well-Known Member

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    and I dont see why there would be a problem with adjusting them even if they are tuliped real bad
    I have changed valves on my motorcycle motor that were so bad you could use them for a pizza cutter and they never came apart

    major problem I could forsee is running out of room for adjustment

    i have not yet heard of running a valve so far mushroomed into the seat that it starts to disentegrate but I suppose it could
     
  8. Dec 4, 2011 at 10:50 AM
    #8
    steve o 77

    steve o 77 braaap

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    Well generally once they start to wear the adjustment quickly changes. So you'll probably have to adjust them again in about 10k miles if they're really bad.
     
  9. Dec 17, 2011 at 3:43 PM
    #9
    Dustrider

    Dustrider [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I pulled the head off and the valves dont look too bad
    not bad at all
    #1 intakes look a little dirty but they are holding liquid
    I was expecting to find something obvious

    what the hell
    now I am confused AND pissed
    ?????

    tore off the head on 2 mechanics diagnostic advice
    and the valves dont look too bad
    hard to believe valves can look this good at 202,000 but make it stall ?

    Im about ready to scream if I took the head off after all this for no reason and nobody can figure out why it stalls
     
  10. Dec 17, 2011 at 7:29 PM
    #10
    joes06tacoma

    joes06tacoma Well-Known Member

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  11. Dec 17, 2011 at 8:32 PM
    #11
    Dustrider

    Dustrider [OP] Well-Known Member

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    close inspection sees the valves are not great but I have seen worse
    several valves have zero clearance some have .0015
    seats look nasty and some stems wobble when the valve is open
    two valves have some uneven erosion on the outer edge

    maybe I am just not realizing how bad these valves are but
    I was actually hoping to see something more obvious

    I put a straight edge on the head and block with a flashlight behind and cant see a measurable gap at all

    no obvious breaks in the head gasket marks to indicate a leak

    I was burning NO oil so I am thinking the cylinders are good

    didnt do a leakdown

    I guess the best option is to get head redone and reassemble

    if the problem is still there then I'll replace the injectors which are about the only components not yet replaced

    all the plugs are a nice brown color
     
  12. Dec 19, 2011 at 11:28 AM
    #12
    87xjmike

    87xjmike Well-Known Member

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    My compression #'s looked like yours and it idled rough cuz i had two shrunken exhaust valves. Re-built head and got two new valves and she's good as new, also had head guy grind down valve stems/lifter buckets to get proper shim tolerance in lieu of re-shimming.
     
  13. Dec 21, 2011 at 10:11 PM
    #13
    Dustrider

    Dustrider [OP] Well-Known Member

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    put the new head on and it fired right up
    NO MORE cold stall
    no more "EGR type stumble"
    idles higher and IDLES real smooth
    about 25% more power too

    worked out some bugs and did a 200 mile shakedown

    I just refused to believe bad valves would act like that


    THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP EVERYONE
     
  14. Dec 22, 2011 at 8:13 AM
    #14
    87xjmike

    87xjmike Well-Known Member

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    nice, love it when that shit pays off.
     
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