Car and Driver Comparison: 2016 Tacoma v. 2016 Colorado

Yup.

 

Powertrain parts to 100k was the warranty deal. Those also happen to be by far the most expensive to fix. So you tell me what the gimmick is...

 

Quit deflecting. I need those sales numbers on the Eaton G80/E80 series lockers to aftermarket applications and a breakdown why of GM's warranty is rolling backwards from someone else other than a GM source now! .

Dude, you need to relax. Just end this. Let the topic move on...

 

Exactly. So it was expensive to fix all of the powertrain failures so now GM is giving up on it. I see we are agreed.

On modern cars it's always a crap shoot on what electronic or plastic bit will break first. I expect the motor and transmission to last at least 300k though no matter what badge is on the front. Obviously, GM had trouble putting there money where their mouth is though because their failure rate on the powertrain is to high after 60K miles so they are rolling back the warranty to ditch those costs.

Visually, it looks bad to consumers no matter how GM spins it.

 

I missed this one. The point is that only Eaton makes this kind of locker even with the patient expired. Any other manufacturer can now make it. Not everyone uses Eaton for their differentials. Yet no one is making this type of differential because it wouldn't add anything they don't already offer with their LSD and selectable locker options.

Anyways, I agree to disagree on you with this. Hopefully you can come to that point before you buy your shiny new Collie.

 

dlaker stop taking this discussion so personally. Nobody is pissing on the g80 like I think you think they are.

 

Yes....as someone who has used both systems, the last fuking thing I need, is to play with the traction control devices like on a Taco while I am plowing. At least in our state, the majority of small PU based plow trucks are GM products....they work. While you are off roading, it's a different story; you need select ability. Case closed...life is good.

 

this thread is huge, can someone repost the link for the car and driver article? too many page to look through and a google search gives multiple articles

 

I think it was a magazine only article TBH. The summary on the first page gives the month of the article.

 

And who said the posters on the Colorado Forum obsessed over the Taco ?

 

LOL, true

 

I know a lot of people that have BMW and audi that have no problems and they all own. ACTUALLY they were smart though, they bought off lease lol. Why pay 68k for a new one when a two or three year old off lease with only 50000km on it is 20k cheaper.

The BMW isn't as reliable as the audi is, but they both aren't that bad, the problem with them is that they have a lot of scheduled maintenance. whether it be DSG transmission flushes every 50 000km, timing belts etc they need a lot of maintenance to be reliable. The argument that they aren't reliable isn't completely fair, a lot of times when you see unreliable ones its because the person didn't do scheduled maintenance. To say they require more money to maintain is fair since yes they are expensive in that sense (DSG service is upwards of $600 from dealer) clutch job is usually around 5000 for the manuals.

But at the same time, when you own any car if you do not do the maintenance then it will not be reliable.
I have multiple friends with old audis and BMWs from the early to mid 90s still running. Hell one of my friends has a 98 A4 with 390 000km on it, still running strong. But obviously like I said that maintenance is expensive. Timing belt on these are average from 1200-1600

 

The biggest problem is Audi and BMW isn't just the maintenance and reliability, it's the cost to fix anything on their vehicles. My point was that no one wants to pay for a possible repair on those brands rather than just get into a new one before the warranty is up. Leasing is perfect for that.

 

I gotta 1998 BMW M3 with 138000 miles that says BMWs are reliable and not anymore expensive than anything else to maintain (*if you're smart about where you buy parts)

 

That's the big caveat, and the newer it is the harder it is to find that good cheap parts line.

I'm going to say I've never owned a BMW/Audi/Mercedes myself, and I probably never will because I don't need or want one, but one of my friends from highschool is a finance manager at a BMW dealer and he's told me many times it's always cheaper to keep leasing new BMW's with full warranty rather than run the risk something goes wrong off warranty. Maybe he's wrong. I'm sure once one is 10 years old the story would be different but I've heard the same thing echoed on here though from a few BMW owners.

 

I suspect you are correct about the newer models as for maintainence and saving yourself maintenance costs by leasing. BMW dealers can be very expensive to pay labor to.

Funny thing I've found about owning this car from 1998 is that German dealers were very reasonable as far as parts and labor, here in this country there are many parts that are surprisingly reasonable and then some random parts that make you say WTH (charcoal canister for evap $500 WTF). The labor rates have varied pretty widely. Colorado springs dealer very reasonable, Nebraska dealers very expensive labor rates and inexperienced mechanics that chase goose eggs.

 

it still depends on the owner.

You gotta remember most of the people leasing them are business people, the sorta people that kinda need to keep that new wealthy look for some of them. Like presentation is important. Plus some probably can write off the lease. They are also luxury cars. Those that afford them also just usually like having the newest thing.

They are only expensive to fix because most jobs are so labour intensive (also parts are sometimes rather expensive)
I personally was looking at buying an audi s4 before I decided on the new taco, truthfully the repairs weren't what stopped me. I've dealt with the germans, I love them, they are actually really reliable and not that bad to fix if you know where to go/do it yourself.

What really stopped me was I need the added cargo space, the taco, as terrible as it is on fuel is still better than an S4, and insurance is cheaper. That and I am doing a lot of renovations I could use it, even in my line of work as an electrician for side jobs its useful to have.
The price of repairs is really as bad as you think. They are more, but I feel you think the repairs are on average 1500-2500 more than any other car. They really aren't.

I saw earlier as well you guys were talking about how some contractors buy vans instead, you gotta not the other reason for that is they are wayyyy cheaper than buying trucks, and they are lockable. not to mention in a way are actually better for certain trades. I know from my line of work they are way better than a truck would be. You can organize them as a mini shop. My old work van I had for a previous company I worked for was perfect. I could take almost any service call. I had a shelf just dedicated to motors, lighting and relays. No way could I have something set up that good in a bed of a truck.

 

Agreed. So if something goes wrong and it's off warranty it's sometimes prohibitively expensive to fix. Everything is designed to fit so tight together in those German cars it gets pricey if someone else does the work. If you can find someone who can do it for you it's much cheaper, though like you said the price is high on parts sometimes.

Yes, business professionals use BMW's and that's leasing bread and butter. I still would never buy one myself after what I've heard about off warranty, if I was even in the market for one. If I made a lot on money and lived closer to a dealer though I could see leasing one of their nicer, faster, versions of the 500 series.

 

I know for all the dealers near me for audi and BMW average rates are 160-180/hour.
The shop I go to, the owner and master mechanic used to work for one of the most reputable tuning and german motors sales in ontario. He now owns his own shop, charges 90/h and does out standing work. I've seen better work from him than dealers. I know he has multiple customers who both lease and own go to him instead of a dealer, not just for better price but better work.

But regardless, the new ones are no where close to as reliable as the older ones. Even with VW. Even without this whole emission issue garbage, the new engines are garbage compared to the older ones.

 

Yes, they are made very tight.

To each their own though right? I know even with toyota warranty I still likely would only bring it to the dealer if it was a recall issue. Hell when my VW was under warranty and things broke I still brought it to my guy just cause I trust his work. Having a dealer not fix it right the first time cost me more missing work than just paying for it out of pocket and having it done right the first time. Its also not possible for me to lease or keep warranty anyways haha, I have to modify to make it my own, so all warranties are usually void.