Carry with a chambered round???

Good input, I agree with a lot of this.

Absolutely! Gun should never be drawn unless you are about to shoot to save your life.

 

and if the situation, or your interpretation of it, changes while you're drawing???

I'd be willing to bet a lot of LEOs have drawn weapons without sending lead down-range...

 

I would beg to differ....as a john q. public armed citizen I would pull for several reasons...to defend myself or to defend someone else...what other reasons would a LEO pull for?

 

the situation represents a different degree of knowledge they have going in, but it is still to defend themselves....at least in my mind...

 

What I'm saying is that you have to be thinking until the lead leaves the barrel...you may already be putting 2lbs on the trigger when something happens that waves off your decision to shoot...it's not always going to be a "I've drawn - I have to fire" situation...

 

COCKED AND LOCKED!!!!!!!!!!! Know your weapon...that it comes instinctively....practice...practice....and practice some more. I encourage all who carry to take some stress fire classes. Its not like you see in the movies. You WILL get tunnel vision, hearing loss, shaking, sweating palms,...Stress induced causes a serious adrenalin dump. I speak from experience. 6 years with 82nd airborne, 107th Tac Assult. Most people don't even remember pulling the trigger when it happens. Hence, P.T.S.D. It's an act that will change your life forever!!!!

 

...and that's why I advocate continuous situation re-evaluation until the gun recoils in your hand...

Seems like some of the comments in this thread are heavy on the "draw-shoot" without a lot of "think" involved... There's more to training than knowing your weapon and being able to draw it quickly...you ought to be doing a bit of mental training..."how would I react to this situation?", "how would I react to that situation?"...It's great that you can draw and throw lead quickly, but do you need to? What's in your field of fire - both in front of, and behind?

I rolled up on a domestic in the street one night (I was strapped)...but because I was constantly re-evaluating the situation as I became an actor in it, I determined that I didn't need to even reach for it...an act that could have turned a sorta bad situation into a real bad situation...

I'm just advocating thought in conjunction with action....and that thought needs to start with the decision to carry, how to carry, and then mental prep for various situations....

 

i get what you're saying

but, nobody is saying not to evaluate the situation. don't draw unless you're going to shoot. evaluate the situation BEFORE you draw - not draw, evaluate, then shoot. because if you pull your gun to eval and somebody sees you pulled your gun, they're gonna shoot you and be "defending" themselves against you. you're word vs theirs, and you'll be dead.

 

As "John Q. Public" you are not afforded the priveledge of pulling for several reasons...the only reason as "John Q. Public" you are authorized under current law to draw your firearm as a CCW holder is to protect the life of yourself or someone else. As the quote below describes....As "John Q. Public" it is your duty and responsibility to evaluate, then draw. If the situation evolves into a don't shoot scenario in the less than 2 secs. it should take a compentant person to draw and fire on target...well then by all means, don't shoot. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is very unlikely to happen. If asshole is doing something that he/she deserves to drawn on...the hand is quicker than the eye and he/she should be shot center mass before he/she even recognizes that you have drawn in the first place. If you go around thinking that you are afforded the priveledge of drawing, then evaluating....as law enforcement officers do, then sir you are setting yourself up for failure.

Back to the point though... It's a scientific fact that your brain does not have the capability to multi-task in the manner that you are "training" for. It's a remarkable feat to be able to perform under the amount of stress you will be under when finally faced with an encounter such as a "deadly force"...ask me how I know. Yes, muscle memory, training, blah, blah, blah....when it comes down to it there is only one thing you need to remember...KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Adding unnessessary steps to an already stressfull and dynamic situation.....= Failure. If you don't feel comfotable carrying a semi-auto glock with one in the pipe....well then maybe you need to re-evaluate the gun of choice. Maybe a revolver would be best for you. Sure, you're going to read this and come up with some other reason why your method is the best or why you do what you do...fine. Remember though...all the training in the world can't prepare you for when it actually happens. You might be super sniper, delta force, navy high speed recon, that can double tap to the face from 50 yards, all while drawing from a tuxedo and racking the slide...under two seconds.....on a paper target. I'm here to tell you though, when the shit really hits the fan........the only thing you're thinking about is getting that pea shooter up on target and milking the piss outta that trigger like it's the first time you found the "G" spot.......ask me how I know. Good luck with your choice.

As CCW holders, you are authorized no other option.

 

Great post and I agree on all points.

 

Why does an LE officer draw their gun?

We draw when we do building searches with open doors on burg alarms.

We draw our RIFLE when we run K9 tracks after bad guys.

We draw when a person runs from us, takes us on a high speed chase and then runs on foot after committing a crime.

We draw when we feel that in the time it takes the contact to turn and fire, we are already ready, for instance, a car filled with 5-6 gang members in an area known for high crime or contacting a vehicle that has an alert hazard to LE attached to it.

LE is a reactionary force, anything that can put us on a level above the bad guy is a a potentially life saving thing.

 

My .02.
You can pull a gun if the situation warrants without shooting. But if you point it you better be prepared to kill what you are pointing it at. No wounding shots, no warning shots. Mozambique drill, start at the chest and work your way to the forehead until the threat is over. Scan and reacquire if necessary.
This is much easier if you have one in the pipe ready to go. And every time you unholster you don't need to shoot. I have had to pull my gun 2x's both were to diffuse a situation, and just showing I was armed dissuaded the people from further action. I am happy to say I have never had to shoot anyone or really even come close. It was nice to know I had that option if things went sideways.

 

You sir, just by pulling your gun to "diffuse" the situation as you put it can, should and probably will be viewed as "imminent danger" to someone else....someone who may be a little faster and more practiced than you. Even though that gun is at your side, I be willing to bet my next paycheck on the fact that there are more people out there than you think that could put two in your chest even before you can process that they too have now drawn down on you. The real bitch here is that you've done this x2 and won...makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. As stated before..the only reason a CCW holder, is in the right to brandish a firearm,...is in a life and death situation. If you merely had it "at your side" and albeit you may be one of the "good guys", you're still wrong. Having that "well lookey what I brought to the fight" mentality most certainly will get yourself or someone you are very close too, hurt.

 

I have a Kahr also and you have to keep one chambered. If you do not fully run the slide all the back and let go forward to chamber a round you may not get the striker loaded (spring back 2/3) and not be able to discharge the weapon when you want. Kahrs are very particular about this. Good or bad they are. Shoot it a few times at the range. Keep your action closed load the magazine then rack your slide. Do it quick like you are being shot at. See how many miss fires you have. Now with the action open load the magazine and release the slide. Never a miss fire. At least I haven't had one.
Load a round in the chamber they way I just said, pop out the mag and put another round in the mag. Put the mag back in the gun and you're good to go.
I've put lots of rounds through mine and never have a problem. Yeah eventually I'll have one hang up but so far so good and I'm ready when it happens.

 

This post is just full of win. I wish more people who carried a gun thought like this. Truth is though, and I'll argue this to the grave; a vast majority of the people who carry a gun have the wrong mindset and probably don't have the training to do so effectively. I sell guns (a college job) and I spend most of my day cringing at the thing people say, were talking Joe Biden interview teeth cringing stuff. Rarely do I encounter gun owners that actually have a level head and realistic, rational view on self defense.

 

You sir, have not read my posts...my evaluation starts with the decision to carry...the evaluation of the threats I believe I'd be facing leads to my decision on how to carry...and my evaluation of situations leads to my decision to draw...

Did you not read the part of my post where I broke up a domestic and did not draw???

It doesn't seem like you read any of my post...the several reasons I would draw I clearly listed as to defend myself or someone else...

I'm not saying my way is best for everyone I'm just saying that people need to be thinking from the decision to carry through recoil instead of just saying "one in the pipe, if I draw I fire"....I wasn't hearing a whole lot of thought being put out by the people who were trying to tell me how stupid I am for not keeping one in the chamber....

Thanks for the education on how my brain works...I think in my 48 years, 20 in the military, and have been shot at....I've got it figured out by now...You might not be the only person in the world who has faced pressure situations....

Glad to hear that once you start to draw you're sorta commited to fire...I prefer to make damn good and sure I've got a legitimate reason to take a shot in public while law and order still rule on our streets....a lil' more time under this adminstration and that may change...

 

Okay...that's WHEN you draw....but the WHY is still to defend yourself...as a LEO you're faced with situations where you are anticipating a certain level of danger....most john q. publics don't face those situations....but I can guarantee you that if my perceived level of danger going into something reached a certain level I would draw to defend myself regardless of what you think I'm permitted to do.....

 

Not advocating the winging shot...none of the training I've been through has taught anything but center mass...

 

Thanks for the advice. I have noticed all of that about the Kahr. I've only had it 7 days but I've gone to the range twice since owning it. The damn magazine broke already! Supposedly this is a common problem and they are replacing it with no questions asked, but still. Thanks for the tips though!

 

Admittedly, I have only skimmed your posts and you are right about people needing to think more.....myself included. I'll do you a square. When I go to the range next month I will play around with drawing, and racking the slide. I have a shot timer, and I will give it an honest go. that way I can say that I am an informed shooter that has experianced both sides. And as I stated before...you will stand your ground and defend why you do what you do. I most certainly respect that. What I don't agree with is the thought process that seems to get so many people in trouble is the "when in doubt, whip it out" mentality. You said "draw, evaluate...." Listen man, I get that a situation like that is ever evolving and yes it can become de-escelated in the blink of an eye. The only point I'm making here is that normal, everyday "John Q Public's", like you said, do not possess the skill set, or the mindset to be able to effectively evaluate a dynamic situation like a deadly force encounter if they want to have a chance in hell at living to tell about it. That is the reason the law states that a CCW holder can draw and brandish only when they feel a life is in jeapordy....or under a castle doctrine. You may have 20 years in the military and you may have been shot at...awesome....thank you for your service. I too wear that same badge of honor...(minus the twenty year thing) although I am retired after 9.

Ultimately I think that we may be saying the same thing here...just in a different context.

Spend some time browsing around http://www.forcescience.org/. They have numerous write ups and articles and studies on what happens in the time it takes to draw and fire....or in your case...draw, load, evaluate, possibly fire.