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Chrysler Bankrupt !!

Discussion in 'General Automotive' started by neontrail, Apr 30, 2009.

  1. Apr 30, 2009 at 9:49 AM
    #21
    goofyboy

    goofyboy Longhorn.

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    this is good. i am happy as hell the bond holders have done this. If they hadn't, who would buy bonds anymore, with the threat of the government stepping in and making them worthless.

    also, Chrysler can re-org, get rid of the union contracts and come out better than ever.
     
  2. Apr 30, 2009 at 9:50 AM
    #22
    Pster

    Pster Well-Known Member

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    You are dead solid perfect correct Goofy!. :) There are mechanisms in place to resolve these issues and the government needs to GET THE FUCK OUT. Obama didn't want them in bankruptcy only because he thought the Unions would do worse in bankruptcy...which they may...but let the bankruptcy process sort out what is fair. Now we will see if Obama is going to try to tell the Bankruptcy court what to do. If he does, it is the end of the business investment system in the US as we have known it. NO ONE WILL INVEST IN ANYTHING AND THE STOCK MARKET WILL COLLAPSE.
     
  3. Apr 30, 2009 at 9:54 AM
    #23
    Bart

    Bart Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if this is going to be the lessen the UAW need's to learn about their "we want" pracitces? Get the UAW out of the plant's and have them work for a fair wage like Toyota's plant worker or BMW in South Carolina. Then maybe they could be vaiable companies agian.
     
  4. Apr 30, 2009 at 10:25 AM
    #24
    johnecon2001

    johnecon2001 Well-Known Member

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    Time to go buy a Jeep for cheap.
     
  5. Apr 30, 2009 at 10:29 AM
    #25
    T@co_Pr3runn3r

    T@co_Pr3runn3r XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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    No, the government won't back warranties....you, me & every other taxpaying loser, I mean legal citizen, will tho.
     
  6. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:05 AM
    #26
    Pster

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    Bart, you make an excellent point. The moral to this story and the lesson the unions are going to get is that there is a point at which your demands and/or refusal to make concessions becomes your own hell. The bankruptcy court can now UNILATERALLY cancel any and all contracts the union has with Chrysler. They played their hand too long......
     
  7. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:09 AM
    #27
    wiscdave

    wiscdave Lets Do It!

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    tHAT IS BS, are you sure about that?
     
  8. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:20 AM
    #28
    Bart

    Bart Well-Known Member

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    Agreed hopefully they rest EI Chevy, Ford UAWs will see that they are not entitled to big pentions and legacey cost's the toatal billion's and that there is nothing wrong with "working for a living" not scamming these Industries out of billion's it's better to have a job than not have one at all and it's not like they are working for any where close to minimum wage. at there wage's they would make 2,100 a week 8,400 a month and 100,800 a year that's all inclusive retirement heath care all there frill's and only work 40hr's a week pushing a button or two and if you worked over 8hr's in one day you would get overtime pay for that day not a 40hr week that day so you could work 40hr's in 4 day's and get paid 8 hr's overtime that's BULLSHIT!
     
  9. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:20 AM
    #29
    OU812

    OU812 ban the term murdered out

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    Nothing yet, brand new!
    ^^YES!!! Every time a GM car rolls into the service department to get warranty work done YOU are paying to fix that car. :mad:
     
  10. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:22 AM
    #30
    lsocoee

    lsocoee My hair is all natural Staff Member

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    Wow, at that rate, everybody is going to go bankrupt! :goingcrazy:
     
  11. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:33 AM
    #31
    Pster

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    You are correct Bart. Look, I'm not knocking auto workers and I don't think you are either, they deserve a decent paycheck, but let's be honest here, how frickin hard is it to show up every day and bolt doors onto space frames with the best tools money can buy and never having to bend over to do it??????
     
  12. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:43 AM
    #32
    Bart

    Bart Well-Known Member

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    Nope I'm not nocking anyone for doing what they do for a living. I think Union's had a time and a place but not in today's market place.
     
  13. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM
    #33
    OU812

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    Nothing yet, brand new!
    Good thing their sales figures are in the crapper. :cool:

    Every time I see a new domestic other than Ford it makes me sick to know me and my kid are paying for it in some fashion. :(
    Chrysler and GM should not have gotten this far. Bankruptcy should have started long ago for these two.

    To all who think the sky will fall if this comes true I say look at the airlines. They are still flying after several bankruptcy filings. From the dead companies new leaner and meaner airlines with competitive prices have emerged.
     
  14. Apr 30, 2009 at 11:56 AM
    #34
    bmxican

    bmxican Keep it simple. Keep it positive.

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    well said, well said.
     
  15. Apr 30, 2009 at 12:02 PM
    #35
    T@co_Pr3runn3r

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    How do figure it's BS? If the government backs the warranties tell me where the government gets the money to do that? FROM EVERY ONE OF US that pays taxes, right? I do agree that the concept & reality of it is BS................
     
  16. Apr 30, 2009 at 12:08 PM
    #36
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Staff Member

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    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. Apr 30, 2009 at 12:09 PM
    #37
    Pster

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    The comment above is 1000% correct. Especially when it comes to warranties which are incremental non-controllable variable expenses.
     
  18. Apr 30, 2009 at 12:43 PM
    #38
    goofyboy

    goofyboy Longhorn.

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    be careful what you are going to hear on the "news" over the next few days... they will spin this to make the bond holders look evil. Obama will also make them out to be the bad guys.

    Letter from a bond holder:

    APRIL 29, 2009, 9:19 P.M. ET
    Gwin's Letter to the Editor Wall Street Journal: 'Why Save Chrysler'
    Geoffrey Gwin, a principal at Group G Capital Partners LLC, is among the bank lenders to Chrysler who could
    determine the fate of 80,000 retirees and existing employees. In a letter to the editor to the Journal below, Mr.
    Gwin discusses his struggle in making a decision that could affect so many lives.
    * * *
    Dear Editor,
    I am one of the investors that may soon have to cast a vote on whether to forgive Chrysler's secured bank debt,
    allowing the company to forego bankruptcy. I run a small investment fund, and when I purchased Chrysler debt
    more than a year ago, I did not envision that deal would lead to a potential vote that will affect the lives of
    thousands of working families all across America. My decision to invest was based on careful analysis of what
    appeared to be the market's undervaluing of Chrysler's assets, which secured the loan. The weight of evidence at
    the time suggested that even in bankruptcy lenders would have access to their collateral and a reasonable
    recovery.
    It is very possible in a few days I may be asked to make a difficult choice: vote to agree with what the TARP banks
    have had forced on them by our government or vote "no." It is possible my "no" would force Chrysler into
    bankruptcy but potentially reduce our funds losses. If you believe the rhetoric of the Obama administration,
    bankruptcy is not such a bad option. But the anxiety of Detroit politicians seems to suggest otherwise. I agree with
    former GM Chairman Rick Wagoner, it is a roll of the dice a prudent man probably wouldn't take. But of this I am
    certain: Obama car czar Steven Rattner's advice, as well as the whisperings of hundreds of hungry bankruptcy
    professionals, are not words to be wholly trusted either.
    It has become fashionable to point fingers at investors like me and say we are greedy, only interested in preserving
    our own financial empires (FYI: my empire right now is three kids in a small, two-bedroom New York apartment).
    But to cast this as a case of investor greed ignores a much more complex picture. For years, the UAW has elicited
    benefits from Chrysler that far exceeded those accrued by workers in other manufacturing sectors. The Chrysler
    rank-and-file has long enjoyed pensions and health care unseen by the majority of Americans. Ultimately,
    Chrysler's and its workers' inability to rein in such costs during the golden days of the American car industry has
    left the company extremely vulnerable during the economic storm our country is now enduring.
    The administration and others argue that the "right thing to do" is to save Chrysler and thereby ensure the
    livelihoods of all its workers, retirees, and the workers at Chrysler suppliers. This at the expense of the right's of
    creditors, such as my company. But the administration should concern itself with the nobler cause of preserving
    the fundamental system of laws governing creditor rights. It was this system that allowed bankruptcy without
    government involvement to bring order to companies that have become unsustainable -- a critical cog in the
    clockwork that has yielded the most prosperous economy in the world. Our economic system relies on the trust
    investors put in the interlocking principles of creditor rights, transparency, and a free market where the
    government is a referee and rarely a player. Indeed, the mechanism needs regular tuning but eliminate a critical
    cog, such as creditor rights, and the entire enterprise will grind to a halt.
    I am deeply sympathetic to the families that will be affected by my decision. I have personal experience with the
    very real pain of bankruptcy. Shortly before I was born, my father started a career at Delta Air Lines that would
    span 30 years. Airline families dominated the Atlanta community in which I grew up. I watched as dozens of my
    friends' parents-pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, gate agents, office workers lost their jobs, health care, and
    pensions when Eastern Air Lines declared bankruptcy. From that time on our family always carried the fear that
    what could happen to Eastern could happen to Delta. Two years ago, my father, by then a Delta Air Lines retiree,
    along with hundreds in our community lost the bulk of their retirement and health care benefits when Delta
    declared bankruptcy. No government task force came to their rescue -- nor did one arrive to save the Pennsylvania
    steel mills or South Caroline textile mills, or the thousands of other companies that have faced this painful
    situation.
    So why save Chrysler? I am inclined to say let the market run its course. Allow poorly managed companies to reap
    what they have sown. History shows us that if the government plays its proper role and enforces a fair set of rules
    by which we all adhere, our economy will flourish. But if we are changing the rules and allowing the government to
    pick winners and cast aside more than two centuries' of upholding creditor rights, then I offer President Obama
    this deal: You can have my personal share of the Chrysler loan free and clear, but give my Dad back his Delta
    pension and health care benefits. I think it makes sense-after all we are only adding one more to the 50,000
    hard-working American families saved.
    Geoffrey Gwin
    Principal
    Group G Capital Partners LLC
     
  19. Apr 30, 2009 at 12:56 PM
    #39
    Pster

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    HOOORAH!!!! HERE HERE!!!! RIGHT ON!!! THE TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL AND THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL WIN OVER EVIL AND IGNORANCE!!!! :goingcrazy::yay::cheers::bananadance::thumbsup::amen::drunk::rockband::rofl:
     
  20. Apr 30, 2009 at 12:58 PM
    #40
    Pster

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    I was at Bank of America's annual shareholders meeting yesterday. The message to Ken Lewis was this: "STAND UP TO THOSE GOVERNMENT BASTARDS AND DON'T LET THEM TAKE OVER THIS COMPANY, LOOK BEHIND YOU - WE ARE WITH YOU!!"
     
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