Clutch and TOB Replacement

All,

It’s come time to replace my clutch and throw out bearing on my 2014 4x4 6 speed. I have searched other threads and have found a plethora of info from 2016 or so. Seeing if I can get some new guidance on parts.

Most said replace TOB with the URD sleeve and thicker bearing. What’re the opinions on brands to new TOBs, plates, clutch, and new flywheel?

Truck has no mods and is largely city driving and no off-roading. Would like something functional and durable.

TIA

 

Bump

 

Alright first of all,

URD TOB. Does it apply from an angle just like the problem with the stock one? I don't know.
Can it be lubricated to maintain periodically?
These are questions you need to ask.

And, sometimes, the latest greatest can be the best. In the case of the URD one, it is not the latest. It's been around a while.
But things long established can also be a good thing. Research you have to do.

If it was me, I'd be looking at piecing together a Tilton HydroTOB kit per the DIY posted on the forum, while the truck is still driveable.
To piece together the kit entirely, familiarize yourself with DIY's and make sure you have the required tools
then figure out day(s) and time to do it.

That says nothing of which other parts to use, or what else to do while you're in there. In my case, for the other parts, I have:
-URD Torque-U flywheel
-URD Stage 2 clutch kit

I wonder if you can get away with a URD TOB.
And if the truck is city driven and stock, it might be fine with a regular flywheel (even resurface yours) and regular clutch.
However, I like my stg2 clutch more than stock. It's also supposed to clamp better.
My clamp force feel is reduced by my HydroTOB.
I also like my URD FW. Besides other benefits, it is easier to drive in traffic.
I do plan to keep the truck however.
It depends. If you're just trying to fix a failure and get it driving for another 6 months and sell if (if that is what you plan for whatever reason) then it may not make sense to spend more on upgraded parts.

 

I agree, the URD TOB seems like a straightforward, cheap, and intuitive solution. I have heard some squeaks re-surface with it from various folks after a disappointingly short amount of time, but at least the risk of the TOB failing would presumably be pushed out for a long time with that solution. My research on it has been somewhat inconclusive, but it seems like a reasonable solution. It seems like for a while, the Clutch Masters HydroTOB was considered the best move, and the tide has shifted on that due to the seal leakage issues many experienced and have documented here. I will be avoiding the CM HydroTOB. For context, I plan to keep this truck for a long time, and I value improvement in the day-to-day driving feel.

I did my best to digest the epic thread on these issues and how some folks arrived at the (presumably more reliable, and well thought-out) Tilton setup. I am DIY-friendly-ish, but a transmission drop and clutch modification is a bit beyond my pay grade and tools, so any solution I choose will be going to the mechanic and will be part of a full clutch replacement job. For this reason, a complicated mod would be a problem for me, because my mechanic may be less inclined to want to get involved.

It's debatable for me if I should do this soon or push the job off, as it is expensive. The squeak I hear when i depress the clutch and now while driving with the clutch fully engaged is relatively annoying but ultimately minor, and while it likely indicates a worsening condition in the TOB system, some report that it can hang on for a long time like that. If it gets any louder I'll replace it, though. My clutch has 150k so it wouldn't be too premature to get a new clutch.

It looked like a user, @Kasbien there was setting up kits for folks on TW to order as of recent. I have PM'd him for some information and hopefully that is still an option. Otherwise, I personally wouldn't trust my knowledge of that system and that thread to get all the bits and pieces correctly identified to do the hydro conversion right confidently. It would have to be pretty plug-and-play for me to show up at the mechanic shop for my clutch job, hand over the parts with a basic description that we are ditching the OEM TOB for the Hydro, and let them do it. That is my primary concern with the hydro setup. Also, I don't know how much it costs but I am assuming it to be similar to the CM setup, ~$500, about 2x that of the URD solution.

As for flywheel and clutch, I have been largely happy with the Aisin stuff and also am a fairly average driver, I tow maybe 2-3x a year and don't do any real off-roading besides accessing camp sites a few times a year. I do get a pretty severe chatter in the clutch, particularly when the truck is cold and the conditions are humid/rainy outside, for some reason. It shudders pretty hard in 1st and Reverse from a stand-still, though seems to go away once the truck is up to operating temperature.

A few questions:

1. What is the level of urgency to get this done in a 150k truck that has an audible but live-able squeak while idling, driving, and depressing the clutch pedal? It is annoying, yes, but its also an expensive job.
2. If you go with the URD setup, would you want to use the updated "Support release fork ball stud (31236 35050)" that was part of the toyota TSB on clutch squeak? TSB 0365-10
3. If you go with the Tilton Hydro setup, can the new bearing setup just replace the OEM TOB, and that's it? I'm assuming you delete the clutch fork and other items that no longer are needed? I read about people replacing the OEM clutch pedal and other components with the FJ one, is that a required part of this mod? That would likely push this option into the "too involved" territory for me. I just don't want a significant squeak in my truck, and ideally I do away with the chatter.
4. I read somewhere about clutch adjustment being a factor in all this. My squeak goes away when i just barely apply pressure to the clutch pedal. Does this indicate that the pedal is not adjusted properly? Should there be more free travel before pressure starts being applied to the bearing? I recently did a Slave cylinder replacement and accumulator delete, I'm wondering if that influences whether a clutch pedal adjustment should be checked or not.


Thanks!

 

If you don't have any complaints about your first 150k on factory parts, I would slap all OEM replacements in there and not worry about an expensive solution to a problem you don't have. The OEM bearing gets a way worse reputation then it deserves.

Probably not an emergency to get it done right away if it's just squeaking. If squeaking turns to grinding, then I'd move up your time line.

 

Yeah, makes sense. I bought the truck @ 120k so I am assuming it is all factory in there. I’ll probably end up throwing the URD setup in there if the problem worsens. By my understanding the URD bearing is an OEM bearing, just machined out a bit larger on the ID to fit the slightly enlarged steel URD shaft. Clutch and flywheel, etc will all be OEM. How many miles are folks getting on the factory clutches for 2nd gen 6MTs (assuming normal conditions/proper driving)

 

I got 130ish out of mine and there was still a fair amount of life left in my clutch disk. Most of those miles were with the accumulator installed, i didnt pull that till 120ish. I only replaced mine when I did because I was paranoid about the TOB bearing. Knowing what I know now I would have let it go longer.

 

I have nothing to add but will be lurking here behind the scenes. I have a 2014, six speed manual as well and am at 148,000, and have no signs of problems yet.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed and learning all I can before the big day arrives!

 

Hey @Tfielder, just replied to your PM.

As for your other questions:

1) It can chirp for a while. If it gets considerably louder and/or starts audibly grinding or effecting shifting ability then it become a far more pressing issue. "Sooner rather than later."

2) I wouldn't go with the URD sleeve/bearing as success rate is a mixed bag. Some folks it's worked great and others have had the same symptoms return after a couple months of driving. IMO, not something you want after that much money and labour to drop the trans.

3) The factory pivot fork/release bearing setup are deleted, yes. The introduction of the metal FJ cruiser pedal swap is for three reasons: 1) the tilton hydraulic release bearing requires a physical pedal stop to prevent the hydraulic piston from over-travelling, 2) it's a far better design than the plastic junk that came with our trucks, 3) you'll probably get rid of any pedal squeaks. Even without the hydraulic Tilton setup, that pedal would be a useful improvement.

4) While clutch pedal adjustment is important, it's not your problem. The crickets go away when you slightly depress the pedal because the release bearing now has pressure on it, which stops the bearing from being a loosey goosey rattle box basically.

Ultimately, if your pursuit is to try and resolve the issue but keep the truck 100% stock for city usage, I would: resurface the OEM flywheel, new AISIN OEM clutch and replace all the release bearing and clutch fork parts with OEM TSB revision parts. While the Tilton hydraulic setup is great leap forward to a permanent solution, it's not "100% stock." I'd say it's more geared towards people than enjoy modding their trucks.

 

clutch pedal engagement adjustment is not hard to do. And recommended to check sometimes. Messing with it alone will not repair worn out parts.

the stock design has a limited life. If you drive normally and are OK with that, then stock parts might be fine.

normally on a car with a proper clutch design, if the clutch is not worn out, it can continue to operate and last a long time.
Vs the Tacoma. The hearing gets added stress. It wears out faster. And squeaks. Even if the clutch components themselves are taken care of and still work fine.
Kind of forcing you to drop the trans at like 10yr/100k because of like a $30 bearing alone. Never had that happen on other vehicles.

because I plan to keep my truck. Has armor and bigger tires. Sometimes climb mountains with it. Been at altitude. Have towed. I prefer the best strongest stuff I can get. I want it to be bulletproof and reduce the number of times I have to pull the trans out.
At this point I’ve pulled the trans out twice. It’s not as hard as more complicated vehicles.
I’ll probably have to pull it out again a third time to switch to Tilton later on. Haven’t even began assembling a parts kit for that yet.

my CM HydroTOB does squeak a bit sometimes but at this point I just ignore it. I don’t know why it does. Will it actually fail? Idk. I hope not.

I think a big selling point of a HydroTOB is that it reduces pedal effort by being hydraulic. Which is why race cars use them.
The reduced effort allows you to upgrade to a stiffer, stronger pressure plate with more clamping force, without making the pedal more difficult to press.
And, given that the theory behind the design of a HydroTOB is that it engages straight on, I think that may aid in improving pedal feel at the bite point to control and modulate it better.
Which is important. Both to start in traffic in a heavy truck, as well as wheeling up hill off road.
But that’s not the end of it. Just the beginning of it and one of many pieces. It would still go up hill better off road if it had lockers, better tcase ratio like 4:1 instead of 2.57:1 (more leverage) and a crawlbox, which being it’s a truck it is long enough to fit a crawlbox.
Those of course all do come with more work and parts cost.
I don’t know if converting to 4:1 ratio is even a possibility.

I don’t know how much of a factor experience is. At the end of the day, to do my clutch I followed the instructions. To install my HydroTOB, I followed the instructions. Just like when I put together IKEA furniture.

for one, most mechanics I know (myself included) have otherwise never previously installed a HydroTOB and learning is involved. Working in shops usually involved following a repair manual (more reading instructions) to install factory components that operate in a traditional manner, rather than new different upgrades that are outside the scope of original manufacturer parts.

measure twice cut once. If your truck still runs that means you have time to read through DIY’s multiple times over until you are comfortable and understand it. At least that’s how I do it.
To speed up the job.

if I wait until the job is started (truck taken apart) to THEN begin reading, that turns a one day job into a two day job.
Same shit in the mechanic profession. You go over the repair manual and parts list first. To have everything ready.
And not end up in the situation of a vehicle taken apart and inoperable to find out you are missing some small cheap key component that is 5 days away to order.

 

My trucks at 163k on the stock clutch. TOB chirps, but the clutch feels fine. Following this thread.

 

2006 4x, MT (FJ T-Case swap) with 259,000 original miles on the clutch... yes the TOB chirps but still runs fine.
I had a CM Hydro kit on the shelf in anticipation, but sold it when the leak issues started to show up. Currently planning to go with the Tilton Hyro option, but (hopefully) I can wait (run to fail the OEM clutch) until I can get my 1UZ donor swap going and then mesh it all together....

 

Have you looked into the Tilton hydraulic bearing set up?

 

feel like I need an engineering degree to put together that kit

 

My 2006 Prerunner (2.7, 5 Spd) is at 191k miles, original clutch. No chirping.

 

Different transmission than the 6-speed.