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Clutch burns easily in reverse

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas' started by mcflymarty, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. Sep 27, 2012 at 12:21 PM
    #1
    mcflymarty

    mcflymarty [OP] Member

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    I've read a lot of other threads on clutch issues, but my '12 tacoma V6 6spd struggles mightily when reversing up a steep or semi-steep incline (paved or not). Seems the gearing is incredible "tall," as in I'm having to give it loads of gas while only letting out the clutch pedal a tiny bit. The inevitable outcome has been a burning clutch, rancid smell and all. While I'm not in the business of regularly reversing up inclines, my driveway has been the main culprit so far and even if I do it once every couple months, that seems like too much to be smelling my clutch getting toasted.

    Any other people have this same problem? Any suggestions? Put in 4 LO? Seems like the truck should be able to back up a paved dry surface, incline or not, without roasting the clutch and not having to put it into 4x4. When it does happen, I'm probably only "riding the clutch" for 4 or 5 seconds while backing up... but there doesn't seem to be anyway around this other than stalling out, or backing up much faster than is safe given the narrowness of my driveway. I've driven a manual transmission my entire life and never had clutch problems (put 360k miles on my last one)... but this is my first truck though.

    Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!!
     
  2. Sep 27, 2012 at 12:46 PM
    #2
    shemp

    shemp Well-Known Member

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    At first when I read your post, I though I was going to have to say something like "its you, not the truck", but I looked up the specs for that RA60F tranny (is yours an M-tranny? Or an F-tranny?), and discovered that the reverse ratio is an absolutely INSANE 3.61:1. That's a higher ratio than your 1st gear (4.17:1). The 5-speed MT has 1st 3.95:1 and R 4.22:1 -- this is the proper way of doing it, reverse LOWER than 1st.

    Combine your crazy high reverse ratio with your 3.727 axle ratio, you're running an overall reverse ratio of 13.45:1. Mine is a much more comfortable 17.30:1.

    NOT COOL TOYOTA!!! NOT COOL!!!!

    The only thing I can suggest to you, since radical transectomy is obviously not an option, is to research what it would take to perform a 2L mod on your truck. That will bring you to 34.6:1, which I'm sure is lower than you'd really like, but I don't see much alternative.

    Its either that, or learn how to drive really really fast in reverse.


    2L mod will involve tricking the computer into thinking that the ADD is in the locked position when it actually isn't.
     
  3. Sep 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM
    #3
    mcflymarty

    mcflymarty [OP] Member

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    Wow, thank you for that explanation. Although I'm unfamiliar with much of the technical aspects of what you just described, I gathered enough to realize that I'm not crazy and haven't forgotten how to drive a stick shift.

    As far as the M vs. F tranny question... I have no idea, how would I go about finding out? In my user manual?

    Based on what you describe, it definitely sounds like a shitty setup and my personal experience thus far attests to that. Thanks for the info! Any other comments or suggestions are appreciated.
     
  4. Sep 27, 2012 at 2:59 PM
    #4
    easyeatlanta

    easyeatlanta Artificial Intelligence beats natural stupidity

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    yeah burn outs in reverse have a better spin and cause tire smoke much easier than in first
     
  5. Sep 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM
    #5
    Tacoma831

    Tacoma831 Member

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    I was reversing up a hill without touching the clutch, I punched it a little and it just started slipping and a huge cloud of smoke puffed out.
     
  6. Sep 27, 2012 at 3:47 PM
    #6
    badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Toyota really fucked up on the reverse gearing. Someone was apparently hitting the saki too hard. I eventually solved it by installing a twin stick T-case and 4.56 gears. I back up in low range. There are ways to do this electronically too, by defeating the ADD in 4WD. A search should find it. I did the new case to eliminate the 4WD ECU and electrical engagement completely. Absolutely love it :)
     
  7. Sep 27, 2012 at 3:52 PM
    #7
    badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Nice summary Shemp. 2lo reverse is actually nice. Even with 4.56 gears it's fine. You can do 30mph in reverse with the stock gearing :D
     
  8. Sep 27, 2012 at 6:32 PM
    #8
    joes06tacoma

    joes06tacoma Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it's geared too high.

    My ex-girlfriend's driveway is super steep and situated on a blind corner. It's very difficult to back out of there. You have two choices, slow and slip the clutch while looking for cars coming around the corner, or go fast and try not to hit the mailbox across the street.:D What I would do is: start truck, place trans in reverse, let the clutch out till it starts to engage, give it a little gas, THEN release the parking brake after the truck is already straining against the brakes. I found that if I kept the RPM around 1200, I could usually get out of the driveway without smelling the clutch.

    I had considered some rewiring to allow 2LO operation, since using 4LO on pavement while manuvering is bad news. It's not an issue anymore, I upgraded to new girlfriend who lives in a condo with a flat parking lot.:D

    The 2LO mod has been discussed on here before. There's at least one guy who has done it on a 2nd gen with the stock transfercase. The ultimate would be a twin stick FJ case swap.

    Interesting to know that the 4banger is geared lower. I have one of those to drive at work and still have issues getting out of steep driveways. I know the smell of clutch very well.
     
  9. Sep 27, 2012 at 7:17 PM
    #9
    landphil

    landphil Wishin' I was Fishin'

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    One of these days I'm going to do an electrical 2lo mod for this reason, if you think its bad backing the truck uphill, try with a trailer, even a small one. Bigger tires compounds the issue, as it makes the effective gear ratio even higher.
     
  10. Sep 27, 2012 at 7:21 PM
    #10
    iroh

    iroh Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think reverse was that steep on this truck. The Civic I learned to drive stick on had a 3.15:1 reverse. THAT was fast. That car could do 45 mph going backwards!

    If you can get the clutch all the way out before the hill it only reverses at about 2 mph at warm idle and you can save the clutch a bit. I have to use this trick from time to time, otherwise I find myself trying to slip it the whole time at a higher rpm to slow it down.

    But, it is a truck, they really really should have a slower reverse than that. PITA when hooking up a trailer.
     
  11. Sep 27, 2012 at 7:25 PM
    #11
    evanmb31

    evanmb31 Well-Known Member

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    Backing up a trailer with my 6 speed sucks! Its really the one thing that really bothers me about my truck
     
  12. Sep 28, 2012 at 5:40 AM
    #12
    shemp

    shemp Well-Known Member

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    Joke... "tranny":
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Aug 27, 2013 at 8:42 AM
    #13
    taco duck

    taco duck Well-Known Member

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    Thread bump... I have the same issue backing my trailer up a hill. Anyone back trailers up in 4 low?
     
  14. Aug 27, 2013 at 9:45 AM
    #14
    Chris24

    Chris24 Well-Known Member

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    hah, funny this thread got bumped. delivered a bed to my friends house the other day...had to back up a decent incline in his driveway and my truck sounded like it wanted to explode trying to get up the hill...smelled clutch for about 15 minutes...ugh
     
  15. Aug 27, 2013 at 9:54 AM
    #15
    Got2ryde

    Got2ryde Well-Known Member

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    I use 4lo when I can, but situation doesn't always allow. So then there will be smoke/smell. Anyone know any good post or threads for a 2lo mod?
     
  16. Aug 27, 2013 at 10:45 AM
    #16
    Maticuno

    Maticuno Weapon Mechanic

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    I do recall reverse being pretty tall on my '06. But if you want tall, try taking an EVOC course and bouncing a Crown Vic off the rev limiter in reverse... ~62mph.
     
  17. Nov 3, 2013 at 8:17 AM
    #17
    BCephus

    BCephus Alright then

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    Get the clutch out with just little gas, then give it the throttle....and hey Toyota, we really shouldn't need to practice to reverse without burning clutches! I think they do it so they don't have to make manuals any more. It's insane how tall the gearing is.
     
  18. Jan 24, 2015 at 11:20 PM
    #18
    hybrid12micah

    hybrid12micah Well-Known Member

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    wow i just experienced this earlier today...

    was taking my truck through some easy trails in el dorado forest trails east of sacramento... went down a narrow trail, looked really rough with jagged trees in the trail so i get out to check the corner and decide i should stop.

    When i go to reverse out i was in a tight spot, with a dirt "speed bump" plus a nice inclide to make it up. right behind me. I smoked the clutch a bit 1st attempt in 2wd and switched to 4HI... smoked it again but got over and had to do some work just to get up this hill...

    by the end of all this my truck smelled so bad... i couldnt believe it. how the hell can we expect to take these off-road if we cant reliably use reverse without burning the clutch? I certinaly can drive manual, but this was different... its nearly impossible to let it out fully in that situation... tight, trees and a small drop off to the passenger side along with a hill plus a nice sized obstacle made letting it out not an option.

    ill have to look into the 2LO option, but wow...
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
  19. Jan 25, 2015 at 8:55 AM
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    Hartford

    Hartford Well-Known Member

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    Should have used 4lo there.
     
  20. Jan 25, 2015 at 9:37 AM
    #20
    TugBoatTrash

    TugBoatTrash Face first!! Hammer down!!!

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    Do dents and scratches count?
    This is the one major thing that bothers me about my truck. I have a steep curved driveway that I like to back up when parking. Their are too many young kids around that are in and out of my yard playing with my kids to safely back down my driveway all the time. I also tow trailers and generally work my truck hard. I don't expect a long life out of my clutch at this rate.
     
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