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Clutch pedal adjustment question

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by Hillingdoner, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Mar 6, 2012 at 12:30 PM
    #1
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    140 amp Cadillac alternator, Audio system in progress, 4Runner map light mirror conversion, foot well lamp addition, buckets and console from 99 Tacoma regular cab, big three, tint
    Trying to adjust the clutch pedal on the 95.

    On the height part now and confused as to where you measure it and verification of height of the pedal.

    I had a print out of the fsm that must have been for a later year as it shows the height at 144mm.

    The picture also showed the pedal to be measured to an imaginary line from the front of the pedal pad parallel up above the pedal to the cab floor where the tar stuff is stuck.

    So, I got a ruler, placed it edge flat on the floor and took a piece of card and held it on the front of the pedal pad so I could get a parallel height line.

    My pedal was way further out than 144mm so this made me double check the figure.

    Got the Haynes manual and they show pictures that look like they are measuring right to the side of the pedal pad itself from the carpeted floor with a ruler. They are giving a measurement range of 6.77 (approx 172mm) inches to 7.17 (approx 182mm) inches. They don't list the 1995 model even though the manual is supposed to cover 95-98, but list these specs for the 1996 model.

    I then went and found the 1995 - 1997 factory service manual pdf. The pedal adjustment page shows specs at 167-177mm from the asphalt sheet on the floor and the picture has a line across the pedal pad parallel with the floor and the line coming up that they are measuring from is below the pedal.

    What gives??? What is the correct way to measure my 1995 and what is the correct range?

    Reason I ask is that if I place the piece of card flat on the pedal pad to get a parallel line to the floor to measure to and measure with the ruler above the pedal I get one figure. If I measure right at the pedal with a piece of card held on the front of the pad to get the top I get a different figure. If I measure with the ruler below the pedal I get yet another figure.

    I've made sure to keep the ruler edge flat on the floor and keep it on the same asphalt pad that is on the floor with no carpet (or should I be measuring from the carpet ala what it looks to me in the Haynes picture?). I've made sure also to not measure where the floor dips anywhere. I've been measuring from the same flat surface on the floor.

    Help, got into this now and need to know how to do the job correctly and get the right figure.
     
  2. Mar 6, 2012 at 5:27 PM
    #2
    humtaco

    humtaco Well-Known Member

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    Can't really help with the measurement. Clutch pedal is very basic you want at least a little freeplay when completely released so there is no pressure on the throw out bearing (no contact with the pressure plate) and as long as the clutch disengages somewhere before the pedal contacts the floor, so you can easily shift, you're good to go.
     
  3. Mar 6, 2012 at 8:31 PM
    #3
    Robertgeejr1

    Robertgeejr1 Well-Known Member

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  4. Mar 6, 2012 at 9:13 PM
    #4
    TacoMX

    TacoMX TW's Official anti body-lift pundit

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    subbed...I need to adjust my clutch
     
  5. Mar 7, 2012 at 7:19 AM
    #5
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the posts and links!

    The more I looked the more conflicting info I got on where you measure on this year range. From all the pictures the one constant is that they are measuring using an imaginary plane parallel to the floor that goes across the top of the pedal pad.

    If you put some card flat on the pedal and measure above the pedal you get a low number. At the pedal a little higher and if the ruler is below the pedal then the measurement is as its highest.

    I ended up measuring right at the pedal with the piece of card stock pressed against the pedal top to give a solid point against the ruler. The card stock was a piece of thin, but stiff card off the back of some blister pack thing.

    I got the height adjusted and then checked the pedal freeplay which was within spec.

    Not totally certain on what they are saying on engagement. The part where you put a chock under the wheel, put the emergency brake on and slowly put the lever towards reverse until you hear gear noise and then push the pedal in. I assume they mean you need at least an inch before full pedal press that the clutch should engage (from the floor). If so then mine is within spec and still does not cure the issue I have so I'm afraid it probably is clutch replace time.

    Now if I read it wrong and the clutch is supposed to start engaging (gear noise goes away) in the first inch of pedal movement then I do have issues as my pedal is almost all the way down before I get this.

    Thanks again for the posts. Cheers
     
  6. Mar 7, 2012 at 8:36 AM
    #6
    Robertgeejr1

    Robertgeejr1 Well-Known Member

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    taking a snack break...
    that would sound like a worn down clutch... I have always had a straight drive (that is why people drive so bad, everything is automatic today!) now i am not bragging but I had one car that the clutch wore out, a 92 Nissan SER and at 260,000 miles the damn thang wore out.. i think when it was dead cold, it got stiff to push in but it would go into gear fine, but as soon as it got warm it would not shift and u could smell it..clutch plate.. and i think it started to make a funny noise also..
    now dont laugh at this but my mom gave me lessions when i was 15 on how to drive one.. and she would yell at me "are you going to shift gears? well then keep your %#&% foot off the pedal!
     
  7. Mar 7, 2012 at 9:31 AM
    #7
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    That's priceless! ^

    Not long got the truck and knew it needed clutch work of some kind when we got it. Has 241,000 on it, but thought I'd give the adjustment a shot to make sure all was set right (no actual receipts for work done to the truck so starting from scratch).

    Long shot, but thought worth a try as no cost involved just effort to do the work.

    After looking under there good with a light while adjusting I see what looks like the slightest bit of fluid maybe on the rubber master cylinder boot inside. Also, apart from the pedal engagement, the throw out bearing is making noise.

    Planning on changing the master, slave and clutch soon anyway and no harm in getting the process down for correct adjustment of the pedal when all the work is complete.

    Still vague a bit on verification of where to measure on the early Tacoma. Will probably just do the best I can and tinker with it. Local Toyota techs (understandably as no money in it for them) are reluctant to confirm point of measurement up to the pedal.

    Not looking forward to doing the work and still have to figure out what is leaking gear oil back by the transmission mount. So far posts have brought no suggestions on any common issues so there is another one to the list to do, lol.
     
  8. Mar 7, 2012 at 2:03 PM
    #8
    Robertgeejr1

    Robertgeejr1 Well-Known Member

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    I have done all the hi-pro mods for a life time, since I got this truck at a great price, I will be happy with showroom new.
    i dont know if this would help with the oil leak
    http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/PinionSeal/index.html

    how do you like the firestones?
    mine came with 4 diff. kinds all bald... but on a set right away and i really like them, baby rolls at 90!
    and general info here
    http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/69744-tutorial-documentation-reference.html
    to tell the truth once when I was 17 I helped my cousin do a clutch in has chevy pick up, it was a nightmare, ran a steel splinter through my hand, got a blood infection. had to be drained.... i just wont go near one.
     
  9. Mar 7, 2012 at 5:39 PM
    #9
    humtaco

    humtaco Well-Known Member

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    Did you mention somewhere what the issue is?

    Does the clutch slip or is it hard to get into a gear or something else?

    Slipping is easy, 99% of time it's a worn disk.

    Trouble getting into gear because the clutch disk is not getting completely disengaged, in this case the transmission input shaft is still engaged with the engine, can be caused by a number of things.
     
  10. Mar 8, 2012 at 7:08 AM
    #10
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    140 amp Cadillac alternator, Audio system in progress, 4Runner map light mirror conversion, foot well lamp addition, buckets and console from 99 Tacoma regular cab, big three, tint
    Thanks for the links.

    Leak wise, I find drips of fresh gear oil on the floor. Look under and find it is wet with drips hanging off where the dark metal plate is between the gearbox and adaptor/extension housing (don't remember what it is called, but the large metal body between the gearbox and the transfer case). I also find drips coming off the rear of the adaptor housing where there is a lug that sticks down at the lowest point. The trans mount is also wet. Levels still good in the gearbox so cleaned everything and have not been able to drive it long enough to get it to leak again. Probably this weekend I'll try to see where it is coming from again. Thankfully its not anywhere a driveshaft is going in, but then if it is some seal or something inside the adaptor housing then I'll have to pull the thing apart to fix it.

    Firestone wise, bought the Tacoma and it had two fairly new Firestone Destination A/T's on the front and some worn to nothing generics on the rear. Looked at quite a number of other tyres and really came down to economics so just put two more of the Firestones on.

    Have to say, actually impressed and like them. Not doing a load of mudding etc. Just drive on snow and some heavily rutted and hilly dirt roads, but they have done the job, get rid of gravel out of the tread, ride pretty nice and are quiet, at least so far, going down the road. Don't regret going with them. If they keep their traction, stay in balance, stay pretty quiet and I get some decent miles out of them then I'd have to say I'd probably buy another set.

    Humtaco- Thanks for your post. You are correct, I did not mention what the issue was that prompted me to give the adjustment a go. Figured I needed to know what the correct proceedure was for adjusting anyway and then the issue with the measure point threw a spanner in the works.

    Clutch isn't slippling, but I do get a constant whine from the throw out bearing (my estimation). Push the clutch clutch pedal in and it stops. Also clutch engages fully towards the very bottom of its travel.

    When initially started it is a bit tougher to get into first and reverse, but not noticed so much on the other gears. From what I've read this is may be normal in colder climates. Only noticed really on first and reverse as when first started of course I have to back out and then put it in gear to go up the street. Seems okay when warmed up.

    Thought I'd give the adjustment a try to see if it was out of spec causing an issue. I adjusted from my guessed height adjustment point and the push rod travel was 10mm or so which was within spec. Whine still there.

    I'm thinking, replace the clutch. Also priced out new clutch master and slave and can get them fairly inexpensive at Rock Auto so probably replace those as well. Sadly, no confirmed history on the truck have to consider pieces may be original 241,000 mile pieces on the truck.

    I've read that if you have the clutch out then a good point to go ahead and do the rear main so going to do that as well. Not leaking from there, but sure would not want to pull everything for a seal (or pay to have it done! Got quoted $1,100 for clutch and rear main job!).

    Thoughts? Sound like I'm on the right direction?

    Thanks again for the posts all. Cheers
     
  11. Mar 8, 2012 at 6:38 PM
    #11
    Robertgeejr1

    Robertgeejr1 Well-Known Member

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    yes that is the clutch. funny when u drive it everyday, when it starts to do it will slip up on you... I really think the 1,100 is a fair price for both jobs, esp if it comes with a warranty.
    when you install it yourself and you mess up the pressure plate, they dont give refunds for that...
    yeah I think the firestones are decent esp for the price. no trouble with the little snow we had this year, thank god,

    one day I will have to share two good stories about my dad getting stuck in deep sand on the outer banks. and one was in a Scout 2, the other in his 1992 toyota 4x4 sr5. that one drew a crowd!
     
  12. Mar 9, 2012 at 7:10 AM
    #12
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yes, piece of mind is good with the warranty. Just hard to stump up $1100 when that is almost a third of what I paid for the whole truck. Just dread the job as been a LONG while since I did clutch work where I had to pull the transmission and a lot older now. Been working on vintage Minis for ages. Very tough to get into due to space, but basically all you have to do is remove the clutch cover with them and everything is right there. Got lazy now! Apart from that, in my infinite deep grained cheapness I begrudge paying the $1100 when I know if I just set my mind to doing the job I can get the bits for less than $400. Maybe folly, but.....
     
  13. Mar 9, 2012 at 8:45 AM
    #13
    Robertgeejr1

    Robertgeejr1 Well-Known Member

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    I have done all the hi-pro mods for a life time, since I got this truck at a great price, I will be happy with showroom new.
    nothing wrong with being cheep these days, and doing some things to my car give me the sense of accomplishment.
    like changing the oil yourself, i get to choose the oil filter I want, and with the money not spent on a lube tech, I can get the best oil I want.
    if you are going to do it yourself, good luck, and get some rest before you start. there are good parts diagrams here and on the web, and study all advise you can.
    i dont know yet where and if the tacoma has motor mounts and trans mounts but i would replace them also. google them, and see what you get. i put the polyurethane one on my stang, when i put the clutch and headers in. and don't think about the money you are spending is a waste, I think of it as a investment, I never knew how many were recalled and destroyed, until the other day and it was alot. helps the value of ours if someone would really want one!
     
  14. Mar 9, 2012 at 9:25 AM
    #14
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Did seem like 1995-1997 were sparce when we were looking for a Tacoma. Had decided we wanted a 1999 or earlier (more due to the wife liking the interior on the earlier ones better). Saw a number of 1998 and 1999 trucks, but the earlier ones only seemed to pop up every once in a while.

    Not sure of total production, but did wonder how many might be left. You have the general wear issue, damage etc. that send them to the breakers, but then throw on a frame recall as well I would imagine that would dwindle the numbers quite a bit.

    Remember seeing some site once where a chap at a dealer posted pics of frame rust they had found and then a picture of a load of Tacomas they had bought back sitting in the back lot waiting to be crushed from what he said. Shame as the body, engines, interiors etc would have all been valuable items to those not in the same boat I would have thought.
     
  15. Mar 9, 2012 at 3:51 PM
    #15
    Robertgeejr1

    Robertgeejr1 Well-Known Member

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    yeah it is amazing to me what companies will do to save money or produce a bad product.

    My uncle really liked Ford trucks, and with his stories, and my experances with them the older F150's built before 1997 were tuff, but they all rust out around the wheel wells.

    But I am really starting to enjoy my truck. I just found out one thing, I took off the throttlebody yesterday, and took the idle air valve off of that, and really cleaned them well and polished them with ultra ultra fine steel wool, new gaskets, and applied new gasket and the seal, and let it dry, but it had just thrown the Idle code, and at 177,000 miles, i think from the condition of the parts, this is the first time it has been done to the truck, it was coated with a almost tar like carbon build up. I dont know how the IACV had been working, it was packed up with the build up, I wish had taken pics, but I will tell you one thing, my ford mustang would have never ran at all with just a portion of this build up. I had to do it to that car when I got it with 31,000 miles or so. and then it would sometimes die at a light,until i cleaned it,,,, this truck was a little hard to start, but that was all, so that alone is impressive, course the ol lady is pissed about the sink now.
     
  16. Mar 10, 2012 at 2:40 AM
    #16
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Cleaned all mine out (bought truck at 241,000) and it was filthy in the throttle body and in the top intake. Took off the IAC and cleaned it out. It was not too bad, but the throttle body had the same tar like filth in it. Took a bit to scrub out, but got it. When got the truck the air filter was basically stopped up and the whole drive train was coated in oily dirt thick.

    Still cleaning on it a bit at a go, but got most of it done.

    Got plugs to go in it, but running so good (verified 20.5 mpg average so far) hate to tinker with it :)

    Cheers
     
  17. Mar 10, 2012 at 7:07 AM
    #17
    humtaco

    humtaco Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, done several clutch jobs over the years but not excited about dropping the transmission out of the 96 which feels like the clutch doesn't have too much life left. I'm on the wrong side of 50 and only recently started taking cars into the shop after having done all my own repairs over the years, brakes, clutches, engine overhauls pretty much everything except transmission work.

    But if I can save $5-600 on labor I might be willing to give up a weekend for that. Would be a great learning experience for my son (the driver of the 96) to see firsthand how a clutch works.

    I'm with your wife on the earlier Tacomas. I like the simplicity of the 96, everything is manual including the hubs and the mileage is decent with the 4 cyl. My 03 has too many bells and whistles, too many powered options. It's more of a sissy truck compared to the 96. I do love it though:)
     
  18. Mar 11, 2012 at 5:26 AM
    #18
    Hillingdoner

    Hillingdoner [OP] Well-Known Member

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    ^Good project and will give him a sense of pride in having done the job. Extra pair of hands to help is always great too!

    With my wife I think the interior thing came down more to seat and door fabric patterns lol. Granted we have not had the truck all that long, but I still find myself telling her to turn the headlamps on "two clicks on the switch" as our other Toyota (car) has auto headlamps.

    I do miss the power locks from our car and the factory push button alarm that will open and close them for us. I've read you can add actuators when you have an aftermarket alarm put in, but honestly I like the old factory stuff.

    Not done any research in getting one, what number it is and what it takes yet. Need to get the clutch issues fixed first.
     
  19. Jan 25, 2013 at 6:05 PM
    #19
    Davtopgun

    Davtopgun Weeeee mod time!

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    Any updates on this? My clutch is acting the exact same way. I've changed out the master and slave cylinder and it had no affect.

    I just want to be sure I need a new clutch before i foot the replacement bill.
     
  20. Jan 26, 2013 at 8:26 PM
    #20
    n0ms

    n0ms Well-Known Member

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    Great information. Need to adjust my clutch soon.
     
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