CO rant

Agreed. The amount of lives saved from a avalanche beacon is some super low number(.001%) or something like that. Meaning, if you think- I wouldn’t ski that line without avy gear, then you shouldn’t ski it with avy gear and vice versa
Good gear doesn’t save lives. Good decisions do though

 

FAQ Here on the COSAR:
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Boating/SearchAndRescueFAQ.pdf

 

I'd say the float packs probably give guys more of an invincibility factor than the beacons do.

 

Kind of a bummer to hear about this and read this thread really. I used to work for an automation company (here in Maine) a handful of years back. One of the clients I worked on a bunch was in Boulder. Spent maybe 3 months out there, cumulatively. Thats actually where (and how) I ended up buying my truck. Saw it on the side of the used lot at a local dealership and was like damnnnnn. A few days later I managed to get some time off at the end of one of my 80+ hr weeks and she was mine

All that to say, I absolutely loved it out there in that area. What little of the area I did get to explore was fantastic. Loved to take the rental car up into the mountains if I got out of work before the sun had set and just drive around all the back roads. And once I had the truck.. well lets just say I was probably one of those tourists you guys would have hated haha. Running across Switzerland Tr and up Pennsylvania Gulch with fully aired up tires and no recovery gear cause I didnt have any other option..

But yeah its kind of a bummer what social media has done to cool places like this I suppose. I mean its also cool for people to be able to see stuff they wouldn't be able to, but then those that have the means to move out there are way more inclined to actually do so, and we end up with the current scenario. Im a member of several of the larger FB 'overland' groups here in the NE and even in the past few years the number of people in those groups has skyrocketed. And so has the number of "where is that" posts. Like seriously? GTFO with that fuqing shit man. If you see a picture thats really thatttt damn cool, then man up and reach out to the guy / gal personally and ask for more details. See if you can join along on a ride or whatever. Dont just drop a dumbass public comment 'wheres that?'.

IDK guess Im kind of getting off on a social media rant here, but I feel for you guys in areas out west. I foresee some of the same issues here in the Northeast presenting themselves in a big way in the next few years. Not necessarily people moving here, but more and more people getting into the offroad / overland / camping thing and then what few trails we do have getting overcrowded. Which leads to issues, which leads to them getting shutdown or restricted in one way or another. Which is just frankly sad for everyone.

 

wow this blew up. yep back country is gonna be bad this winter. got lucky snow was somewhat stable when resort shuts down last year but different ball game in winter and a shallow snow pack. there will be a major accident i agree and probably up by the tunnels.

 

this right here just respect the land and other enjoying it

 

https://www.hatchmag.com/blog/end-dispersed-camping/7715118

…I hadn’t noticed the damage until she pointed it out to me, but this bit of vandalism took some effort, a chainsaw and a general disregard for the next folks to come camping who might like to tie their horses up overnight.​

 

thanks for sharing. well written. I am all for shutting places down and taking away this luxury if we have to. I am so happy they have closed onion creek in moab so maybe one day when i am old i can camp there with my boys and share with them that magical place. Used to be able to roll up on a friday night and have your pick of camp it would be nice to experience it again with my boys.

 

This is why I hate people.

 

I agree dispersed camping spots get trashed a bunch, but it's not just Colorado. The 4wd action guys in Australia started a whole campaign about taking 2 bags of trash out of the back country, one that's yours and one that's full of trash that was there

 

That’s my argument for going on solo trips. I can make decisions that will change my risk factor. Low slopes, near people, etc

 

Nice I love it if you can't Backcountry ski solo than you shouldn't be Backcountry skiing

 

How are you going to roll up on a Friday night and have your pick of places if dispersed camping is eliminated? Either you won't since all the sites are first come, first serve like Rabbit Valley is now (which hasn't really eliminated anything since people camp illegally in the cow camps or other places anyway) or you have to to get permits and hope things align like Hanging Lake or National Parks. Dispersed camping this year has been a total Charlie Foxtrot, don't think I disagree, but the problem I see is people dragging toy hauler RVs in and leaving them set up, essentially squatting like their own little mountain cabin as base camps for side-by-sides. That is part of why the San Rafael Swell is getting all closed down, the abuse like that. So the motorized use will be concentrated in the recreation area with the other 600,000 acres boring graded dirt roads to trailheads for hikers and horses as Wilderness.

The USFS and BLM have 14-day camping limits that they abuse. It's unenforceable as it is I know but what needs to happen is the limit reduced to 7-days and you have to be continuously occupying the site for the time you're there. Or in other words if you don't stay there each night the camp is considered abandoned and your junk is towed. If you're setting up a hunting camp is about the only reason I can see for leaving a camp set up longer than a week in dispersed camping areas and in that case getting a free permit to leave it would be fine. Just show you have tags for the season. Everyone else should be driving in, camping, perhaps exploring for a couple of days, moving on.

 

The real problem is since people can't police themselves how do you expect the USFS/ BLM rangers to do so? We would probably need like 5K more of them in Colorado alone to patrol everything 24/7.

 

Drones!

 

Yeah that beacon number isn't true at all and please stop spreading this myth. Decision making will always be more important but if people discount the effectiveness of beacons, more people will die. If you are rescued within 10 minutes of burial your survival chances are in the 80-90% range. If nobody can find your body because you don't think beacons do anything to help your survival chances plummet.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6150773_The_impact_of_avalanche_rescue_devices_on_survival

 

I apologize but I believe I was actually trying to make the same point you are here. I agree with everything you said. In most real life situations beacons are sadly, effective for body recovery because as you stated, your chance of survival after 10 minutes reduces significantly. I was more pointing out the fact that when most people strap a beacon on, they think they are invincible and make bad decisions not good ones. The ones that make the good decisions are the ones who are educated on backcountry decision making. I bet the amount of beacons sold compared to the amount of avy 1 certifications out there isn’t even remotely close. They should more be used as a last resort in avalanche safety not the first. Using proper avy safety measures, you shouldn’t ever have to use your beacon and hopefully never have to (why yearly training is important) The majority of people stuck in avalanches are the ones with the most experience. This comes from the fact they expose themselves more, and the geared up false sense of security from something that is very unpredictable. Your signal from your beacon in a real life situation doesn’t save your life. There are many factors involved with this - proper shoveling techniques, partners ability to use their beacon and find you buried, interference from other beacons and electrical devices, signal strength, density of snow, air pocket to breathe in, accessibility, how deep you are buried, etc. Point being, beacons give people a false sense of security and all these other things need to be learned to use said beacon. I’m not arguing the effectiveness of the beacon doing its job, more the effectiveness of the person using it and decisions made beforehand. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen people go into the backcountry or to Silverton and pull the beacon straight out of the box, slap some batteries in and think they are all good with no clue how to use it, a lot of times with no shovel or probe. No point in having the thing if you don’t know how to properly use it as well as your other safety equipment. I DO think anyone who ventures into the BC should wear a beacon at ALL times and know how to use it, even on low angle terrain cuz shit happens. Most likely when you least expect it. I know TLTR

 

Thanks for the apology but I was only disagreeing with your estimate of beacon effectiveness - avalanche safety is extremely complex and I'm not going to get into it on a truck message board - you just brought up about five different topics.

The approach to avalanches should always be "risk mitigation" - wearing a beacon and having the training to use it along with a shovel and probe are critical parts of that approach. Decision making is an entirely different subject.

 

That'd be fun! Camping with drones flying by everyday, awesome! Although it would be cost effective and I wouldn't be surprised if it became a reality.

 

I know its a joke, but I'd really like to get a drone for camping. It would be cool to use it both for getting cool pictures/videos of myself so they can sit on my computer and never get posted anywhere, and to see the area around my camp without my lazy ass having to hike around everywhere. Or seeing whats at the top of a cliff or something, climbing and heights freak me out.