Coil lengths/rate question

So about to grab my new suspension and had a question regarding spring rates/length. Originally I wanted to do Bilstein 5100s upfront with the 888 coil for my 2017 2.7 access cab, but I keep seeing thread after thread saying the 888 will sag like crazy after 6-12 months because it’s a 590lb spring (the stock is apparently ~700lb). I want to avoid this considering I’ll be running a full Dakar pack in the back which gives me 2” in the rear.

I’m fine with .5” of rake, but I don’t want 1”+ of rake from a sagging 888, especially when I’m trying to fit 285s comfortably. Would I be smart to pick another 405mm coil in the 650-700lb rate range? A little rougher ride isn’t a huge concern, I just want my lift to be predictable with ~2.5” upfront.

Yes, TC UCAs will be with it for proper alignment and travel.

 

Just so you know, the spring rate difference has nothing to do with the sagging event of a spring. Sagging comes from a couple possible reasons including not enough factory pre setting of the spring or material creep. Probably want to look for another supplier if you’re worried, or by a spacer for later down the road.

 

Please do explain - there’s countless threads on here saying too low of spring rate on a heavy 3rd gen is exactly why there is sag months down the road with an aftermarket lift.

What do you mean by factory pre setting in regards to aftermarket coils?

Serious questions - I want to learn and there’s so many varying opinions on here I’ve read. I simply want to get my lift correct and not have it look like dogshit 6 months later when it could have been avoided.

 

Spring rate is lost over time but that’s just indicative of wear and use but that takes years.

I don’t know of any reports or complaints of sagging from the stock suspension of a 3rd gen. Maybe in 10 years but we aren’t there yet.

Your coils will depend on load. Many get 600. With a full steel bumper I run 700.

 

I’m not speaking of stock suspension though. I’m speaking of 888 coils with 590# rate. Many many threads stating sag after 6+ months and sometimes up to 1” of sag - supposedly because it’s a lower rated spring than stock.

Hence why my OP was asking if finding a spring long enough to give me 2.5” in the front but rated high enough to avoid that sag would be a smart idea.

If what I’ve read is incorrect, great, I’d rather be wrong, but everyone seems to have a different opinion on here and I don’t want to end up with an unpredictable front end that gives me issues clearing 285s down the road after the lift because of sag.

As for front end load - I don’t plan on running any heavy bumper, etc. my truck is mostly empty besides light camping gear in the bed.

 

Run a different coil, 886 perhaps. Maybe hit up Marie @HeadStrong Off-Road

 

888’s are going to be too much lift on a 4cyl AC.

You’re going to be over 3” lift in the front and terrible cv angles.

I would step it down to 887’s.

All these people that complain about “sagging” and probably adding steel armor not realizing that the additional weight is compressing the spring more.

 

Like @SearArtist said, on a 4cyl you won’t have nearly the sag that most are reporting. I’ve been one of the more vocal about this as of late but I have a loaded TRD OR DCSB with sliders and front skid. I lost 3/4” to sag/settling. However, the 5100/888 do ride really well.

 

According to headstrong its MAX 2.75” up front 4cyl AC, even listed on their website.

True, I may just go ahead and give the 888s a shot and if they end up sagging like crap, I’ll switch to a new front setup with 650lb coils of the same length so it’ll hold its height better.

Remember stock coils are 650-700lb

 

When a spring is made the manufacturer usually compresses or cycles the spring to get it to “set”. Meaning the spring will now relax to its ideal free length and its behavior over time more predictable.

If the spring isn’t set prior to install then the free length may change over time causing sagging. It’s just one possibility but unlikely from a company like ARB. I was just trying to illustrate that a lower spring rate doesn’t cause sagging in a year. So don’t just choose a higher rate coil to avoid the sag. Just find a coil which works for the weight you have and do your research on other brands at that spring rate to see if there is sagging shortly after installlation.

 

I think we are saying the same thing. No spring rate won’t cause sag IF the spring you changed out to still supports the weight you have. According to many on TW and Toytec, the stock 3rd gen springs stock are 700lb for a heavier 3rd gen. So switching to a 590 would indeed result in sag over a years time since it’s not enough to support the weight, especially if you ad bumper, plate, etc.

I know my 2.7 is lighter up front, so hopefully 888 doesn’t sag much at all. If so I may adjust 5100s to .85 or just get a new setup with better spring so I don’t have to ad preload.

 

No front armor on my truck. Sitting at 2" lift after 6 months on 888s. Not "complaining," just "letting people know" before they spend money on something and don't get what is advertised.

 

Which lines up perfect with the notion that stock coils are ~700lb +\- so of course 590lb rated 888s would sag a bit over months use on the heavier 3rd gen.

But who knows, hopefully I’m wrong at 888s work fine for my 2.7.

 

Finally installed small spacers.

Here's what 5100s with 888 coils plus 1/2" thick spacer on driver side and 1/4" thick spacer on passenger side looks like. Got around 2.5" lift up front and about 2.5" lift in the rear from the Dakar HDs. Very happy with how it rides. So smooth.

 

The question remains, are all stock coils 700# across all models?

 

+1

This really is the most important factor - knowing which spring your truck comes stock with. Go to high - rough ass ride, too low - going to sag (if you don’t have the option to adjust your shocks up a few notches).

I do like the idea of adding some spacers to the 888s/5100 combo after they’ve settled so as to keep the nice rice of a softer spring, but that’s still extra work that could be avoided by just picking a properly rated spring for our trucks in the first place.

 

You have a 4-banger. Totally different. 285’s are going to be a powersuck in the 2.7 without regearing. I’ve owned the 2.4, 2.7, and now the 3.5

Also, this is 1.5” of rake

 

Please explain.. Serious question, what’s my stock spring then if it’s not the same as the OR, Sport, SR5, etc? Curious. Unless you’re just trying to say the 590lb 888 is still enough for 2.7 AC weight wise compared to the others.

As for regearing - I think it’s blatantly obvious anyone with the 2.7 on a 3rd gen should regear to 4.88 when moving up to 33s.. doesn’t really have anything to do with suspension lol.

That looks awfully level to me but probably just the angle who knows

 

I am not sure what would work for the 2.7, but I would say 600#-650# unless you have ext travel than the 600# spring may be just fine. Also depends on bumper or not of course

As for rehearing I don’t think the 4.88’s would be enough for the 2.7 unless you have a manual

Front of my truck sits at 22.5” rear is at 24”

Gears are fun!

 

No bumper so I’m sure 650 spring would do me fine. I really haven’t decided on ext travel or not, all depends on if I plan on being a giant dickhead and go 5.29 + 35s like smartass just because lol, or keep my 4.88s and install them with 33s.

Part of me just wants to go all out considering I’ll be dropping a couple grand on tires, new wheels, and suspension anyways. Not cheap in either direction to do it correctly.